See, the problem in CS is the same in Physics. The government and oligarchs claim there isn't enough people in these fields. That's not true. These fields have more people they can handle. Instead, what the DOL is intentionally doing is over-supplying these fields so that people who aren't the absolute pinnacle of these fields are forced into other industries, which drives the cost of of these skillsets down and makes them more attainable.
Basically, CompSci people can get jobs in Silicon Valley, but that's not really where they should be working. They need to work everywhere else in less lucrative places and sectors. In Physics, the field is just as overloaded, but this makes physics majors much more attractive to the financial industry and other industries because they are being over-supplied in the research industry, and their problem solving skills can be more useful elsewhere.
But the problem isn't really that these other industry's can't find them. It's that Colleges are just funneling them all to specific industries, the workers can't find a job, and then just settle for doing something utterly unrelated in their home town, blowing the whole system apart because they think they can't do the work, or that they aren't good enough.
No one's telling students to point themselves towards local industries to get less competitive positions, and it's actually ruining their potentially lucrative careers.
I can personally vouch that the reason some of the people I know who are doing extremely well is because I taught them how to use Excel formulas and macros in their daily work. This is because for everyone else, computers are all a magic black box that no one knows how to use. Minimal programming skill can literally put you well above anyone else if you can show what you actually did to make it work.
Instead, colleges are doing everything in their power to make the supply of coders in Silicon Valley ultra-competitive so that the tech giants can keep their labor costs low, while everyone else literally doesn't know how to use Excel, and have never even heard of "Microsoft Access".
This is why a place like Upwork.com is useful: free-lance coders can do temporary coding work for small fees across the country, rather than doing all their work as part of a corporate Goliath and feeding into the California system.
Sure get students a CS course, but then direct them to local work. These kids should be learning Unity, VBA, or Java, or any kind of basic form-building work. Don't train them to be code-monkeys at Microsoft. Maybe Python for building robotics as an intro.
Immigration is bad for America, but it's only partly killing CS.
The reason that outsourced labor is fucking up CS is because of quality. Code monkeys doing mass simple code with little error checking, integration to other systems, consistent structuring, and a lot of other little things.
It's the method of education in both China and India: rote memorization as a skillset, and then the production of cheap labor in a very literal term.
The thing that was explained to me is that you could tell the off-shore team to build anything and they'd build it. Normally in an efficient, poorly designed way, that didn't really look to satisfy the user-experience, and was utterly uncreative.
Yeah, the replacements are pretty shit. I'm not even convinced it saves money because they're so bad at what they do, but the tech sector "thinks" it does so it will continue.
It definitely doesn't save money. They just don't care because they are hoping that the consumer will keep buying crap.
It's like why people keep buying shit from Walmart instead of genuine products from reputable producers, even when they know it will break in a year. Then they fix it and complain that no one makes anything like they used to.
Well yeah, not at the price point you're asking considering inflation.
You want to know why people don't make things like they used to? Because if you made things like they used to, that sewing machine would have been 25% of your paycheck. That's why the one I have from 1903 still works.
Instead, the money got devalued, the wages didn't increase, the corporations got bigger, so everyone cut down on quality.
The reasoning behind credit courses like this is to get them exposed to a variety of fields that gives them a taste of what they might want, AND cross train them for the modern field where needing to be semi-proficient in multiple disciplines is the norm. Like chemical engineering with a coding background to maintain/design the equipment.
Hmm, are you saying that there is more money to be made for programmers through more local industries rather than the FAANG companies in the long run due to supply-and-demand?
Also, having worked with VBA and Microsoft Access, that UI can go fuck itself lol
IF you get a job at Microsoft, you will make more money. But that's IF you can get it, which is not a guarantee, and how many years will you be working shit jobs in San Francisco before you can get it? It's a high-risk, high-reward deal, not unlike every single person who moves to LA to get into Entertainment.
More than likely, the career of this person is working in a highly competitive environment, dreaming of working at Google for most of their career, but mostly doing odds-and-ends programming in and environment where coders are dime-a-dozen, and then maybe you get into Google, and they can you after a few years. In the end, you've probably been burned by both the industry and every employer you have. You did work at Google once, and you did get paid $120,000 a year in a state where gas is $7 a gallon. Most of that time you lived in California, you spent vying with other denizens to be a wage-slave to a tech oligarch, and it's burned you out on everything and everyone until you quit and leave the state for good. Some people will lose everything due to circumstances, and leave the industry and state altogether, going back to some shit like retail or sales because that was the job they needed to pay the bills.
But on the other hand, what if you recognized, you probably couldn't out-perform people at Google the moment you walked out of your certification class or college. What if, instead, you worked in Harrisburg, PA for a tool & die firm that needed someone to program some of their machines? Most of your work could be spend in a lesser known industry. The skills you develop would be niche and marketable skills within that industry with less labor competition. You'd probably end up having employers compete for you. You'll end up getting those higher wages over time due to a useful skillset, you'll develop professional and social connections that will get you better opportunities to exploit, and likely in places with a lower cost of living.
The first coder made $120,000 a year in a place that broke his soul, and he probably came out of the whole experience still in debt and mad at the world.
The second coder is upper-middle class and has a family, and doesn't care that he'll never work at Google, but never made over $100,000 a year by the time he's 45.
Coder #2 is the one who's better off. And the thing is, all these smaller businesses, they'd be desperate to pay someone to help streamline their shit and help them & their customers. Google is a technofascist mega-corp that wants to rule the world and doesn't know what gender it is.
More money as in income? Probably not. More money as in: you will have ascended the socio-economic ladder faster and with less stress so that you have a good life while having positively contributed to your community? Yes.
I'm going to be honest. This has larger problems.
See, the problem in CS is the same in Physics. The government and oligarchs claim there isn't enough people in these fields. That's not true. These fields have more people they can handle. Instead, what the DOL is intentionally doing is over-supplying these fields so that people who aren't the absolute pinnacle of these fields are forced into other industries, which drives the cost of of these skillsets down and makes them more attainable.
Basically, CompSci people can get jobs in Silicon Valley, but that's not really where they should be working. They need to work everywhere else in less lucrative places and sectors. In Physics, the field is just as overloaded, but this makes physics majors much more attractive to the financial industry and other industries because they are being over-supplied in the research industry, and their problem solving skills can be more useful elsewhere.
But the problem isn't really that these other industry's can't find them. It's that Colleges are just funneling them all to specific industries, the workers can't find a job, and then just settle for doing something utterly unrelated in their home town, blowing the whole system apart because they think they can't do the work, or that they aren't good enough.
No one's telling students to point themselves towards local industries to get less competitive positions, and it's actually ruining their potentially lucrative careers.
I can personally vouch that the reason some of the people I know who are doing extremely well is because I taught them how to use Excel formulas and macros in their daily work. This is because for everyone else, computers are all a magic black box that no one knows how to use. Minimal programming skill can literally put you well above anyone else if you can show what you actually did to make it work.
Instead, colleges are doing everything in their power to make the supply of coders in Silicon Valley ultra-competitive so that the tech giants can keep their labor costs low, while everyone else literally doesn't know how to use Excel, and have never even heard of "Microsoft Access".
This is why a place like Upwork.com is useful: free-lance coders can do temporary coding work for small fees across the country, rather than doing all their work as part of a corporate Goliath and feeding into the California system.
Sure get students a CS course, but then direct them to local work. These kids should be learning Unity, VBA, or Java, or any kind of basic form-building work. Don't train them to be code-monkeys at Microsoft. Maybe Python for building robotics as an intro.
Immigration is what is killing CS fields more than anything.
and outsourcing, they don't even need the pajeets to be physically here
Immigration is bad for America, but it's only partly killing CS.
The reason that outsourced labor is fucking up CS is because of quality. Code monkeys doing mass simple code with little error checking, integration to other systems, consistent structuring, and a lot of other little things.
It's the method of education in both China and India: rote memorization as a skillset, and then the production of cheap labor in a very literal term.
The thing that was explained to me is that you could tell the off-shore team to build anything and they'd build it. Normally in an efficient, poorly designed way, that didn't really look to satisfy the user-experience, and was utterly uncreative.
Yeah, the replacements are pretty shit. I'm not even convinced it saves money because they're so bad at what they do, but the tech sector "thinks" it does so it will continue.
It definitely doesn't save money. They just don't care because they are hoping that the consumer will keep buying crap.
It's like why people keep buying shit from Walmart instead of genuine products from reputable producers, even when they know it will break in a year. Then they fix it and complain that no one makes anything like they used to.
Well yeah, not at the price point you're asking considering inflation.
You want to know why people don't make things like they used to? Because if you made things like they used to, that sewing machine would have been 25% of your paycheck. That's why the one I have from 1903 still works.
Instead, the money got devalued, the wages didn't increase, the corporations got bigger, so everyone cut down on quality.
The reasoning behind credit courses like this is to get them exposed to a variety of fields that gives them a taste of what they might want, AND cross train them for the modern field where needing to be semi-proficient in multiple disciplines is the norm. Like chemical engineering with a coding background to maintain/design the equipment.
I've seen a lot of that, I think that's why I'm seeing so many people learn the ultra-easy coding languages. They are teaching kids python.
I don't know how to code in python.
IDK, C is intuitive to me.
Hmm, are you saying that there is more money to be made for programmers through more local industries rather than the FAANG companies in the long run due to supply-and-demand?
Also, having worked with VBA and Microsoft Access, that UI can go fuck itself lol
Not exactly.
IF you get a job at Microsoft, you will make more money. But that's IF you can get it, which is not a guarantee, and how many years will you be working shit jobs in San Francisco before you can get it? It's a high-risk, high-reward deal, not unlike every single person who moves to LA to get into Entertainment.
More than likely, the career of this person is working in a highly competitive environment, dreaming of working at Google for most of their career, but mostly doing odds-and-ends programming in and environment where coders are dime-a-dozen, and then maybe you get into Google, and they can you after a few years. In the end, you've probably been burned by both the industry and every employer you have. You did work at Google once, and you did get paid $120,000 a year in a state where gas is $7 a gallon. Most of that time you lived in California, you spent vying with other denizens to be a wage-slave to a tech oligarch, and it's burned you out on everything and everyone until you quit and leave the state for good. Some people will lose everything due to circumstances, and leave the industry and state altogether, going back to some shit like retail or sales because that was the job they needed to pay the bills.
But on the other hand, what if you recognized, you probably couldn't out-perform people at Google the moment you walked out of your certification class or college. What if, instead, you worked in Harrisburg, PA for a tool & die firm that needed someone to program some of their machines? Most of your work could be spend in a lesser known industry. The skills you develop would be niche and marketable skills within that industry with less labor competition. You'd probably end up having employers compete for you. You'll end up getting those higher wages over time due to a useful skillset, you'll develop professional and social connections that will get you better opportunities to exploit, and likely in places with a lower cost of living.
The first coder made $120,000 a year in a place that broke his soul, and he probably came out of the whole experience still in debt and mad at the world.
The second coder is upper-middle class and has a family, and doesn't care that he'll never work at Google, but never made over $100,000 a year by the time he's 45.
Coder #2 is the one who's better off. And the thing is, all these smaller businesses, they'd be desperate to pay someone to help streamline their shit and help them & their customers. Google is a technofascist mega-corp that wants to rule the world and doesn't know what gender it is.
More money as in income? Probably not. More money as in: you will have ascended the socio-economic ladder faster and with less stress so that you have a good life while having positively contributed to your community? Yes.
If enough people know the basics of computer programming, perhaps the next person to get sufficiently annoyed will automate their Komatsu bulldozer.
It's gonna happen one day.