Right, so people who were able to HIDE the fact that they were Jewish were the ones who survived the longest. That's obvious.
Are you Jewish? I have sometimes heard the argument that Jewishness isn't an ethnicity, but mostly from Jews who were involved in an argument that Judaism is just a religion in the same vein as Christianity and Islam.
Except that it's not. Judaism has one of the lowest rates of in-conversion of any religion, it's generally matrilineal, and there are strong genetic correlations across almost all Jews, whether Sephardic, or Ashkenazi, etc.
But let's spot you one further and just assume that all of your bad information is correct. The mere existence of someone like Berlatsky, who identifies as both Jewish and Athiest, or Isaac Asimov (from Wikipedia: "I attend no services and follow no ritual and have never undergone that curious puberty rite, the Bar Mitzvah. It doesn't matter. I am Jewish."), Noam Chomsky, or any number of other non-religious Jews, Jewishness is an ethnic AND cultural grouping. Would I, a non-Jewish, be accepted as Jewish merely by adopting Jewish cultural pracrices? No.
Would I, a non-Jewish, be accepted as Jewish merely by adopting Jewish cultural pracrices? No.
If you married Jewish and converted, you would, you clearly don’t know many Jews while spouting your bullshit. One of my ancestors was a prominent Ashkenazi who was excommunicated for marrying a Russian woman and moving to the US. Many US families, especially from Eastern Europe have Jewish ancestors they either don’t know of because they assimilated and didn’t bring up their heritage or don’t really care about being Jewish because they assimilated and didn’t pass over their Jewish practices. The retards you just listed all claimed “Jewish” identity for benefits, however they were all Ashkenazi and former Jews. you crying because Ashkenazi refer to their culture as “Jewish” is redundant, they don’t choose their ethnicity, they choose whether or not they Identify with it.
I said "would I, a non-Jewish [person, sic], be accepted as Jewish merely by adopting Jewish cultural practices?" That is totally perpendicular to converting or marrying into Judaism. The answer remains the same. No, I would not be accepted as a Jew merely for adopting Jewish cultural practices. So we have the situation that there are such things as "cultural Jews" and "religious Jews" but a gentile cannot become a Jew by adopting only the cultural practice. What links "cultural" Jews and "religious" Jews? Ethnicity, by and by.
There's actually some disputes within religious Judaism about who can convert and how. Not surprisingly, the Orthodox are very strict and the reform much less so. A relative of my mine married into conservative Judaism and had to spend several years studying Hebrew. Another acquaintance converted to reform and spent about a week learning a few Hebrew phrases.
I doh't know why you have your dander up here, but I don't see a lot of "crying" going on. Noam Chomsky and Isaac Asimov may be many things, but "retards" they are not. Your arguments are not well-served by the hysterics.
You are the one conflating religion and ethnicity. Saying “Jewish” is a culture is as redundant as saying it is an ethnicity, and I have repeatedly proven there have been millions of Jews who chose to leave and disavow Judaism. This does not Change their ethnicity, they are still Ashkenazi, not Jewish. Anyone who says they are culturally “Jewish” mean they are ashkenazi, they simply use the term Jew because Ashkenazi is, by far, the dominant heritage of Jews worldwide. If all Catholics were Iberian then and some left Catholicism you wouldn’t keep calling them Catholic, but you would keep calling them Iberian. If they chose to still refer to themselves as Catholic then they probably still associate with the religion.
That's pretty much the exact point I've been making. Christianity is NOT an ethnicity. Christian is conceived as a universal religion. Judaism is not and was not. Jews are "the chosen people" and they have always conceived of themselves as separate and different. The difference is that the term Jewish acts as a proxy for both an ethnicity and as a religion. That's completely distinct from Christianity or Islam. Your example of Catholic/Iberian is very apt.
Sure, Jews can cease practicing Judaism. They can convert to Christianity or whatever. One of my childhood best friend's mom is a convert and actually became a pastor. I think she was slightly active with Jews for Jesus, but that's getting far afield. Her children who are neither Jewish by upbringing nor Jewish by religion nor Jewish by culture are not Jewish. They no longer have that ethnic connection.
Right, so people who were able to HIDE the fact that they were Jewish were the ones who survived the longest. That's obvious.
Are you Jewish? I have sometimes heard the argument that Jewishness isn't an ethnicity, but mostly from Jews who were involved in an argument that Judaism is just a religion in the same vein as Christianity and Islam.
Except that it's not. Judaism has one of the lowest rates of in-conversion of any religion, it's generally matrilineal, and there are strong genetic correlations across almost all Jews, whether Sephardic, or Ashkenazi, etc.
But let's spot you one further and just assume that all of your bad information is correct. The mere existence of someone like Berlatsky, who identifies as both Jewish and Athiest, or Isaac Asimov (from Wikipedia: "I attend no services and follow no ritual and have never undergone that curious puberty rite, the Bar Mitzvah. It doesn't matter. I am Jewish."), Noam Chomsky, or any number of other non-religious Jews, Jewishness is an ethnic AND cultural grouping. Would I, a non-Jewish, be accepted as Jewish merely by adopting Jewish cultural pracrices? No.
If you married Jewish and converted, you would, you clearly don’t know many Jews while spouting your bullshit. One of my ancestors was a prominent Ashkenazi who was excommunicated for marrying a Russian woman and moving to the US. Many US families, especially from Eastern Europe have Jewish ancestors they either don’t know of because they assimilated and didn’t bring up their heritage or don’t really care about being Jewish because they assimilated and didn’t pass over their Jewish practices. The retards you just listed all claimed “Jewish” identity for benefits, however they were all Ashkenazi and former Jews. you crying because Ashkenazi refer to their culture as “Jewish” is redundant, they don’t choose their ethnicity, they choose whether or not they Identify with it.
I said "would I, a non-Jewish [person, sic], be accepted as Jewish merely by adopting Jewish cultural practices?" That is totally perpendicular to converting or marrying into Judaism. The answer remains the same. No, I would not be accepted as a Jew merely for adopting Jewish cultural practices. So we have the situation that there are such things as "cultural Jews" and "religious Jews" but a gentile cannot become a Jew by adopting only the cultural practice. What links "cultural" Jews and "religious" Jews? Ethnicity, by and by.
There's actually some disputes within religious Judaism about who can convert and how. Not surprisingly, the Orthodox are very strict and the reform much less so. A relative of my mine married into conservative Judaism and had to spend several years studying Hebrew. Another acquaintance converted to reform and spent about a week learning a few Hebrew phrases.
I doh't know why you have your dander up here, but I don't see a lot of "crying" going on. Noam Chomsky and Isaac Asimov may be many things, but "retards" they are not. Your arguments are not well-served by the hysterics.
You are the one conflating religion and ethnicity. Saying “Jewish” is a culture is as redundant as saying it is an ethnicity, and I have repeatedly proven there have been millions of Jews who chose to leave and disavow Judaism. This does not Change their ethnicity, they are still Ashkenazi, not Jewish. Anyone who says they are culturally “Jewish” mean they are ashkenazi, they simply use the term Jew because Ashkenazi is, by far, the dominant heritage of Jews worldwide. If all Catholics were Iberian then and some left Catholicism you wouldn’t keep calling them Catholic, but you would keep calling them Iberian. If they chose to still refer to themselves as Catholic then they probably still associate with the religion.
That's pretty much the exact point I've been making. Christianity is NOT an ethnicity. Christian is conceived as a universal religion. Judaism is not and was not. Jews are "the chosen people" and they have always conceived of themselves as separate and different. The difference is that the term Jewish acts as a proxy for both an ethnicity and as a religion. That's completely distinct from Christianity or Islam. Your example of Catholic/Iberian is very apt.
Sure, Jews can cease practicing Judaism. They can convert to Christianity or whatever. One of my childhood best friend's mom is a convert and actually became a pastor. I think she was slightly active with Jews for Jesus, but that's getting far afield. Her children who are neither Jewish by upbringing nor Jewish by religion nor Jewish by culture are not Jewish. They no longer have that ethnic connection.