I was a little behind this week as I was really busy, but I'll probably be ahead next week as I have a lot of free time coming up. Finally through chapter 10 now.
I found the Chapter 8 parts interesting. Most of the chapter was taken up with the parts about punishment, learning from it, etc. The first point I find interesting is I couldn't help but see some of today's world in the descriptions of the bad world of the past in the book. I have to take from it that even as far back as 1959, Heinlen saw what was coming in the real world and put parts of it in the book. So is it because every generation sees the same thing in the younger generation? Or just because he could really see how much shit we were getting ourselves in as a world?
I seem to share a lot of the thoughts on criminal justice anyway. Particularly the part of prisons and how they are just a box full of people to learn to be more criminal from. I've never thought prisons to be that useful either. I can't get a good read on their use of corporal punishment though. In one hand it seems like it's used excessively, which would even contradict the part about it being "unusual." On the other hand, when talking about actual people it seems rare. I suppose if they use it for even very small crimes but it's also very uncommon they seem to have nixed small crime even. I think that's part of why I have repeatedly mentioned if there's a hidden dystopia in this world, their crime reduction plan seems to have worked unrealistically well.
The later chapters seem to be a little less philosophical and a little more fun. I have a full Earth Defense Force feeling with the war on bugs. I guess I should say Earth Attack Force, because it was made clear defense is for losers.
The concept of prison is that you are removed from society temporarily as a restitution as well as punishment. As much as scandinavian countries get shit on for the execution of "nice" prisons, they are fundamentally correct. Prison is not meant to be harsh, the day to day suffering is not the punishment, being removed from society is.
You don't need chains and bread to suffer, confinement is harsh enough punishment, just look at Australia's covid quarantine hotels. A gilded cage is still a cage.
Yeah the Scandinavians do seem to get results from their prisons. I think they do a lot of things right there, in that the prison is not designed to destroy one's life while they are confined there. It's almost like grounding a young kid, you're stuck here and can't really do anything you want, but you still have to go to school just like many in Scandinavian prisons still go to work. It's counterproductive to not send a kid to school as part of a punishment (politics of school aside) and it's the same to not send an imprisoned adult to work. I've spent time in that part of the world and I have a lot of respect for those countries myself. They tend to try things because they think it might make sense despite what everyone else does. A lot of their success is due to very homogeneous societies. Sweden is starting to struggle with things a lot more with their influx of muslims.
But yeah, American prisons? Totally broken. It's just what Heinlein says, you're locking them up with criminals to learn more criminal stuff. Totally counterproductive in that US prison leads to nothing but more crime and more prison in the majority of cases.
I was a little behind this week as I was really busy, but I'll probably be ahead next week as I have a lot of free time coming up. Finally through chapter 10 now.
I found the Chapter 8 parts interesting. Most of the chapter was taken up with the parts about punishment, learning from it, etc. The first point I find interesting is I couldn't help but see some of today's world in the descriptions of the bad world of the past in the book. I have to take from it that even as far back as 1959, Heinlen saw what was coming in the real world and put parts of it in the book. So is it because every generation sees the same thing in the younger generation? Or just because he could really see how much shit we were getting ourselves in as a world?
I seem to share a lot of the thoughts on criminal justice anyway. Particularly the part of prisons and how they are just a box full of people to learn to be more criminal from. I've never thought prisons to be that useful either. I can't get a good read on their use of corporal punishment though. In one hand it seems like it's used excessively, which would even contradict the part about it being "unusual." On the other hand, when talking about actual people it seems rare. I suppose if they use it for even very small crimes but it's also very uncommon they seem to have nixed small crime even. I think that's part of why I have repeatedly mentioned if there's a hidden dystopia in this world, their crime reduction plan seems to have worked unrealistically well.
The later chapters seem to be a little less philosophical and a little more fun. I have a full Earth Defense Force feeling with the war on bugs. I guess I should say Earth Attack Force, because it was made clear defense is for losers.
The concept of prison is that you are removed from society temporarily as a restitution as well as punishment. As much as scandinavian countries get shit on for the execution of "nice" prisons, they are fundamentally correct. Prison is not meant to be harsh, the day to day suffering is not the punishment, being removed from society is.
You don't need chains and bread to suffer, confinement is harsh enough punishment, just look at Australia's covid quarantine hotels. A gilded cage is still a cage.
I live in Australia, that's my daily existence "for my safety"
Yeah the Scandinavians do seem to get results from their prisons. I think they do a lot of things right there, in that the prison is not designed to destroy one's life while they are confined there. It's almost like grounding a young kid, you're stuck here and can't really do anything you want, but you still have to go to school just like many in Scandinavian prisons still go to work. It's counterproductive to not send a kid to school as part of a punishment (politics of school aside) and it's the same to not send an imprisoned adult to work. I've spent time in that part of the world and I have a lot of respect for those countries myself. They tend to try things because they think it might make sense despite what everyone else does. A lot of their success is due to very homogeneous societies. Sweden is starting to struggle with things a lot more with their influx of muslims.
But yeah, American prisons? Totally broken. It's just what Heinlein says, you're locking them up with criminals to learn more criminal stuff. Totally counterproductive in that US prison leads to nothing but more crime and more prison in the majority of cases.