I think I tend to lean on the individualists side, as I don't feel that the offspring is responsible for the sins of their fathers. I also don't think they are responsible for the successes of their fathers. I would just disagree with him on having pride in your people/country. I just don't view him in my mind as a politics character and I suppose the answer is "bro you're on KIA2 of course we look at things politically first and foremost", but, he's not very interesting to me politically. I like him for his religious stuff or profesionally for self authoring, and it's just so strange watching people get so heated around the topic of him.
Overall I at least see where you're coming from groups vs individuals. I just suppose I do lay more on his side of things. I was raised LDS and they have an article of faith that I didn't understand as a child that I think is the demarcation line that makes sense to me on that topic.
“We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression”
Especially as someone who has sinned plenty during his lifetime, I have enough reasons that I myself can damn myself over, I don't need the guilt of every sin that my fore-fathers committed laid at my feet, and while I am literally in awe and have a deep reverence for what my fore-fathers did and for which I will always be thankful for, my honest conviction about what sort of responsibility or relationship we have with the past was what woke me up from being a lefist a long time ago. I wasn't about to repent for something I didn't do as I was already rather busy trying to make amends for my actions. The past is a source of pride and inspiration, but I don't feel any ownership over their actions, only that I should emulate the best of them.
That's the trick. The trick is to get you to think it is more one vs the other and that you have a choice. This isn't so at all. Individualism vs ingroup are there and present all the time with every action and every inaction you ever take.
You CANNOT take an action that either DOESN'T require the group or DOESN'T affect the group. It is utterly IMPOSSIBLE for the individual to exist, act and survive without the group.
Every action you take REQUIRES resources acquired and provisioned to you by the group. Simultaneously, every action you take either ADDS or TAKES away from the net / net resources of the group.
Lastly, your BIRTH / EXISTENCE is EXPLICITLY an expression of the ingroups existence and success.
As well, once a persons starts to see the magic trick these charlatans are pulling, a kind of synthesis happens:
All of a sudden you can, simultaneously, see your purpose as an individual and purpose as a member of an in group.
All of a sudden you understand why you need to pick up the heaviest thing you can find and carry it and why it's important to clean your room bucko.
All of a sudden you have clarity beyond the horizon imposed on you by charlatans, you have access to the full database instead of a tiny column of data over there in the corner that these people need you to be slaves to.
All of a sudden all of our myths and history have meaning and every black and white photo comes to life and every 40 000 year old etching on a cave in France has deep deep spiritual and transitive quality.
All of a sudden you understand why you exist and you understand the maximum potential meaning of your life will have accumulated at your death bed.
All of a sudden death, life and the present have new meaning.
There are reasons they want us to forget the past and become atomized. This isn't by accident.
I mean I agree, the only thing is that the only groups that have static boundaries are families. Nations, Races, and Religions are always drifting and changing, sometimes quickly, usually slowly, but still.
If you are the glorious expression of your peoples survival for 500 000 years or more in conditions so harsh you cannot fathom it (ever consider going out into the woods naked with no camping gear, no tools and try to survive for week?), just how much reverence do you have for the continuation of your lineage?
THIS is the goal of the magic trick. A magic trick has two components: HIDE INFORMATION (don't tell them the whole truth) and REDIRECT THEIR FOCUS to an area that is beneficial to you. All magic tricks are exactly this slight of hand.
The moment you start to see ALL OF THE INFORMATION and the moment you start to FOCUS ON YOUR SURVIVAL is the moment you are focused on the survival of your people.
The only question here is, DO YOU control your access to information and your focus or does your enemy.
I think I tend to lean on the individualists side, as I don't feel that the offspring is responsible for the sins of their fathers. I also don't think they are responsible for the successes of their fathers. I would just disagree with him on having pride in your people/country. I just don't view him in my mind as a politics character and I suppose the answer is "bro you're on KIA2 of course we look at things politically first and foremost", but, he's not very interesting to me politically. I like him for his religious stuff or profesionally for self authoring, and it's just so strange watching people get so heated around the topic of him.
Overall I at least see where you're coming from groups vs individuals. I just suppose I do lay more on his side of things. I was raised LDS and they have an article of faith that I didn't understand as a child that I think is the demarcation line that makes sense to me on that topic.
“We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression”
Especially as someone who has sinned plenty during his lifetime, I have enough reasons that I myself can damn myself over, I don't need the guilt of every sin that my fore-fathers committed laid at my feet, and while I am literally in awe and have a deep reverence for what my fore-fathers did and for which I will always be thankful for, my honest conviction about what sort of responsibility or relationship we have with the past was what woke me up from being a lefist a long time ago. I wasn't about to repent for something I didn't do as I was already rather busy trying to make amends for my actions. The past is a source of pride and inspiration, but I don't feel any ownership over their actions, only that I should emulate the best of them.
That's the trick. The trick is to get you to think it is more one vs the other and that you have a choice. This isn't so at all. Individualism vs ingroup are there and present all the time with every action and every inaction you ever take.
You CANNOT take an action that either DOESN'T require the group or DOESN'T affect the group. It is utterly IMPOSSIBLE for the individual to exist, act and survive without the group.
Every action you take REQUIRES resources acquired and provisioned to you by the group. Simultaneously, every action you take either ADDS or TAKES away from the net / net resources of the group.
Lastly, your BIRTH / EXISTENCE is EXPLICITLY an expression of the ingroups existence and success.
You literally have no say in this whatsoever.
That is quite the quote there.
As well, once a persons starts to see the magic trick these charlatans are pulling, a kind of synthesis happens:
All of a sudden you can, simultaneously, see your purpose as an individual and purpose as a member of an in group.
All of a sudden you understand why you need to pick up the heaviest thing you can find and carry it and why it's important to clean your room bucko.
All of a sudden you have clarity beyond the horizon imposed on you by charlatans, you have access to the full database instead of a tiny column of data over there in the corner that these people need you to be slaves to.
All of a sudden all of our myths and history have meaning and every black and white photo comes to life and every 40 000 year old etching on a cave in France has deep deep spiritual and transitive quality.
All of a sudden you understand why you exist and you understand the maximum potential meaning of your life will have accumulated at your death bed.
All of a sudden death, life and the present have new meaning.
There are reasons they want us to forget the past and become atomized. This isn't by accident.
I mean I agree, the only thing is that the only groups that have static boundaries are families. Nations, Races, and Religions are always drifting and changing, sometimes quickly, usually slowly, but still.
And here is where the rubber meets the road.
If you are the glorious expression of your peoples survival for 500 000 years or more in conditions so harsh you cannot fathom it (ever consider going out into the woods naked with no camping gear, no tools and try to survive for week?), just how much reverence do you have for the continuation of your lineage?
THIS is the goal of the magic trick. A magic trick has two components: HIDE INFORMATION (don't tell them the whole truth) and REDIRECT THEIR FOCUS to an area that is beneficial to you. All magic tricks are exactly this slight of hand.
The moment you start to see ALL OF THE INFORMATION and the moment you start to FOCUS ON YOUR SURVIVAL is the moment you are focused on the survival of your people.
The only question here is, DO YOU control your access to information and your focus or does your enemy.