Even though no one of his claims “went too far”, the ones that have the usual suspects shiddin themselves are…thought provoking to say the least. Some interesting commentary happening over at Unz/alt media in general, which is the more interesting/important outcome of this discussion imo.
They are very invested in WW2 being 'the good war', and they in turn vicariously playing the role of 'the good guys' - because it gives them legitimacy. Coincidentally, this is also why even the post-Stalin USSR prohibited Vasily Grossman from publishing his work in which he equated Stalinism with Nazism. The USSR victory in WW2 allowed it to have legitimacy in the eyes of most its people for several decades, and the same is true for the regime in the US and its puppets in Europe.
I do think the way the ultra-right goes about combating this is very counterproductive and wrong.
They are very invested in WW2 being 'the good war', and they in turn vicariously playing the role of 'the good guys' - because it gives them legitimacy.
That’s absolutely a huge part of it, more so in the past than today (which has chosen to suppress the memory of past glory in order to fixate obsessively on alleged shame) - the Narrative(s) told about this time are far more widespread than the realities
I do think the way the ultra-right goes about combating this is very counterproductive and wrong.
I think I know what you mean. When the “enemy” has so completely assumed control of the Narratives, and the Paradigms, and the organs of society, the only proper response is shining the light of truth. Things like fake talmud quotes or purposefully taking things out of context are poisonous, doubly so because there is so much real crime and corruption to expose.
There really is something to be said for “not stooping to their level”. And I’m not saying that in a “oh just turn the other cheek” cop-out, I’m saying: the entire legitimacy of this “new world order” rests on their ability to predict our actions. The worst thing we can do is fall for the same traps that are always set and always sprung. We need to surprise the “powers that be” with something new.
That’s absolutely a huge part of it, more so in the past than today (which has chosen to suppress the memory of past glory in order to fixate obsessively on alleged shame) - the Narrative(s) told about this time are far more widespread than the realities
Both shame and pride can be used to keep the people down. Look at how shame is instrumentalized in Germany and the United States. It's funny, because the German state now demands unquestioning obedience from its subjects based on the fact that the German people with mostly unquestioning obedience followed the Nazis. Obviously, we're very far from trying to learn any useful lessons, rather than trying to manipulate people.
Things like fake talmud quotes or purposefully taking things out of context are poisonous, doubly so because there is so much real crime and corruption to expose.
That is actually not what I meant, but yes, when you presented those quotes from the Talmud I thought "here we go again, it's probably fake as hell". But it turned out you actually had the goods, which was a surprise.
What I mean, in terms of World War 2, is that "Churchill was a psychopath" is not a particularly useful statement. Not just because he was a politician, and if he wasn't less psychopathic than average, he certainly wasn't more so. But it doesn't actually accomplish anything, even you manage to persuade someone of that, which is unlikely.
World War 2 was a colossal failure on the part of the 'allies', both France/England and the USSR. Why on earth would you let them spin that into something positive? There were numerous times at which the Nazis could have been stopped, from the Rhineland takeover to the invasion of Czechoslovakia, with very little bloodshed. If you say the Nazis are bad, and I do grant that, then why would you get any credit for belatedly and at the cost of tens of millions of lives getting rid of them, rather than when it could have been done without much cost?
Incompetence is far more unforgivable than evil. They don't care about their leaders killing a million Iraqis, why should they care about how many Bomber Harris killed? They don't care about Nazi atrocities either. They'd cheer for Nazis if the media told them to, and they do... see Ukraine.
There really is something to be said for “not stooping to their level”.
It's like with the pro-Trump people who thought they could riot because BLM did so. Turns out, BLM can only do so because the ruling class is unanimously on its side. If you do 1/1000 of what they did, they'll come down mercilessly on you: see Jan 6.
They're trying to take out Tucker.
The guy was off base on some stuff, but I didn't get the impression at all that he's a nutsi. Far from it.
Even though no one of his claims “went too far”, the ones that have the usual suspects shiddin themselves are…thought provoking to say the least. Some interesting commentary happening over at Unz/alt media in general, which is the more interesting/important outcome of this discussion imo.
It’s being hit bigly by the ol’ streisand effect
They are very invested in WW2 being 'the good war', and they in turn vicariously playing the role of 'the good guys' - because it gives them legitimacy. Coincidentally, this is also why even the post-Stalin USSR prohibited Vasily Grossman from publishing his work in which he equated Stalinism with Nazism. The USSR victory in WW2 allowed it to have legitimacy in the eyes of most its people for several decades, and the same is true for the regime in the US and its puppets in Europe.
I do think the way the ultra-right goes about combating this is very counterproductive and wrong.
That’s absolutely a huge part of it, more so in the past than today (which has chosen to suppress the memory of past glory in order to fixate obsessively on alleged shame) - the Narrative(s) told about this time are far more widespread than the realities
I think I know what you mean. When the “enemy” has so completely assumed control of the Narratives, and the Paradigms, and the organs of society, the only proper response is shining the light of truth. Things like fake talmud quotes or purposefully taking things out of context are poisonous, doubly so because there is so much real crime and corruption to expose.
There really is something to be said for “not stooping to their level”. And I’m not saying that in a “oh just turn the other cheek” cop-out, I’m saying: the entire legitimacy of this “new world order” rests on their ability to predict our actions. The worst thing we can do is fall for the same traps that are always set and always sprung. We need to surprise the “powers that be” with something new.
Both shame and pride can be used to keep the people down. Look at how shame is instrumentalized in Germany and the United States. It's funny, because the German state now demands unquestioning obedience from its subjects based on the fact that the German people with mostly unquestioning obedience followed the Nazis. Obviously, we're very far from trying to learn any useful lessons, rather than trying to manipulate people.
That is actually not what I meant, but yes, when you presented those quotes from the Talmud I thought "here we go again, it's probably fake as hell". But it turned out you actually had the goods, which was a surprise.
What I mean, in terms of World War 2, is that "Churchill was a psychopath" is not a particularly useful statement. Not just because he was a politician, and if he wasn't less psychopathic than average, he certainly wasn't more so. But it doesn't actually accomplish anything, even you manage to persuade someone of that, which is unlikely.
World War 2 was a colossal failure on the part of the 'allies', both France/England and the USSR. Why on earth would you let them spin that into something positive? There were numerous times at which the Nazis could have been stopped, from the Rhineland takeover to the invasion of Czechoslovakia, with very little bloodshed. If you say the Nazis are bad, and I do grant that, then why would you get any credit for belatedly and at the cost of tens of millions of lives getting rid of them, rather than when it could have been done without much cost?
Incompetence is far more unforgivable than evil. They don't care about their leaders killing a million Iraqis, why should they care about how many Bomber Harris killed? They don't care about Nazi atrocities either. They'd cheer for Nazis if the media told them to, and they do... see Ukraine.
It's like with the pro-Trump people who thought they could riot because BLM did so. Turns out, BLM can only do so because the ruling class is unanimously on its side. If you do 1/1000 of what they did, they'll come down mercilessly on you: see Jan 6.