For me it is how uninteresting the girls are, how silly I find them acting like a character, especially when they heavily lean into it "I'm a time goddess" or some shit like that.
When I have tried watching in the past, I've caught groups of girls (just miserable to watch a bunch of younger women talking about nothing). When it's just one of them, they seem to be fairly mediocre at games, so that makes it less interesting for me as well.
I like women and females to be clear, but I think there is some dissonance with them pretending to be an anime girl, which I assume is because they are ugly. I know that not all of them are ugly, but It is my knee-jerk reaction to hiding behind an avatar instead.
That is probably enough reasons? Despite being very into anime for most of my life, this is something that just really doesn't resonate with me. I am however quite curious about the people keeping these girls afloat, because I don't know a single person (irl) that participates in that community and I purely know about them due to being terminally online.
Not trying to judge any of you guys either, just curious about the type of people watching this.
The leaning into their character I do get, considering a lot of vtubers just drop it, but a lot of what makes vtubing work is the communities around each talent. I'm thinking a lot of them being 'uninteresting' may or may not be because of how long chatting goes on for, but I also know a lot of vtuber's 'past lives' (the 'official' term for their other accounts, including IRL and non-corpo vtuber accounts for corporate vtubers).
Maybe it's just me but my definition of mediocre and others is pretty different because I mostly play fighting games, where the degree of how good you are can vary massively because you can be the best player in your region and get demolished by the best players in the world, but you're still very good because objectively you get pretty damn far in tournaments, but I wouldn't necessarily say many of them are mediocre, some of them, like Dokibird/Selen Tatsuki for example, are genuinely pro level at some of their games (her specifically would be Overwatch and Apex Legends).
On the 'hiding' front, at this point I say it's mostly for the sake of aesthetic + security. A lot more independent vtubers also show their faces than corporate vtubers as a whole, but just from finding out different vtuber's PLs and seeing what they look like, it's aesthetic and security. Security mainly because I genuinely didn't understand how desperate the modern man can become until I saw the tweet where Pokimane's former editor actively admitted that he occasionally was late delivering/uploading videos for her because he was fapping to her, and actually admitted that.
The brain of a man who can actively admit that has to be the brain of a man who delusionally believes he can get some, which is also the reason why most female streamers hide their boyfriends, because those boyfriends have almost always gotten death threats spammed to them from being found, which is ridiculous. Albeit with vtubers, some of that attitude is purposely cultivated by the corporations because corporate vtubing (or at least Hololive) is an extension of Asian idol culture.
There's a lot more hot IRL vtubers than there are not, to the point where some of them 'match the model' if you catch my drift.
I'm primarily a clip watcher who mostly got into vtubers because Moist Critikal/Charlie/penguinz0 was covering the Dokibird/Selen Tatsuki situation when it happened and I had heard and seen clips of them for years, just never really bothered following them really until then.
That is all pretty fair and it is disingenuous of me to say they are all mediocre, I have only seen a handful and they may be playing something like minecraft or some current/modern meme game where skill doesn't really matter.
I am not a fan of female streamers myself, for similar reasons as vtubers probably. I really only watch certain competitive games I am interested in like dota2 and fighting games.
I did hear about that Pokimane situation and had the exact same thought about what kind of pathetic man can do that at all, even in privacy, much less announce it to the world that way. Something about that guy really makes me feel better about myself just for not being him, lol.
All that to say I am not really anti vtuber, I just don't know any vtuber fans and it does seem like a concept that should appeal to me in theory. I probably worded things more harshly or negatively than intended.
where Pokimane's former editor actively admitted that he occasionally was late delivering/uploading videos for her because he was fapping to her, and actually admitted that.
He had a porn and fap addiction which put him behind on work yes, but that was it. Both degenerate, but saying you have a problem and saying to your employer that you have a problem fapping to that employer, different levels of degen.
where Pokimane's former editor actively admitted that he occasionally was late delivering/uploading videos for her because he was fapping
This is what happened. She's not a victim except as much as any other employer with an employee with an addiction failing to meet deadlines and promises is.
What are your thoughts on non-vtube streamers? I was in the same position as you, but then realized I actually like vtubers more normal streamers, but dislike both.
They emit an aura of fakeness. It sets off the part of my brain that's spent years building up alarms towards fake testimonials, scams, marketing speak, bots, etc. Even if it's in good fun, I can't quite shake the persistent thought of, "I'm being played right now."
I find pretty much any type of singular streamer hard to watch, I mentioned in another comment but I just like to watch competitive events like dota2 tournaments or fighting game tournaments from time to time.
I've watched a handful of wow streamers that I liked for awhile, a paladin player and a warrior player that did arenas. But trying to watch normal/popular/big streamers has always felt painful and fake is a great word for the entire concept.
I have definitely enjoyed the best of clips as well, there are some funny situations and memes from vtubers I have loved.
On the surface, its just streaming. You find a "personality" you like and watch them do their thing. Except in this case they are openly playing a "character" with all the benefits that provides over basic facecam streaming. If you don't watch streamers a lot, you won't watch vtubers neither.
In reality it usually comes down to even more obsessed parasocial relationships. Its closer to a mix of the girl-produced ASMR industry with the Japanese Idol culture than anything else.
So if you never got into Idols or wierd ASMR stuff, you'd never like most vtubers. The handful of exceptions might be people who like Mori's music or the edgy memesters like Pipkin who can appeal outside those bubbles.
That is a good way to describe it, probably most streaming from personalities just isn't for me and that is part of it for sure.
I definitely see the idol culture in it, I suppose it was only a matter of time as technology has improved to make anime girls "real" to some level as I have seen they do 3d stuff too and not just stationary stuff.
Yagoo's actively trying to make vtubing go mainstream, in my eyes that's the only reason the Dodgers game is even happening, because he actively wants vtubing to become as big as possible, but that may or may not backfire, considering how many Holo models have wobbly chests that certain people may or may not complain about.
When it comes to these larger companies yes.
One of the only VTubers I watch stream is just someone who use to stream with their Webcam but found it annoying to have to worry about how they looked, so just started using a 2D/3D model. She is just being herself playing Final Fantasy 14 mostly as she always has.
So who are the people vtubers are marketing to?
I know about vtubers, I know the name of some vtubers, but every single one of them is completely unwatchable for me even when I have tried.
I'm a weeb, I'm a single guy, if I am not the target demographic who is?
This is a genuine question to you guys because god damn are vtubers something I really don't understand.
What exactly makes vtubers 'unwatchable' for you? Just wondering because I've heard different reasons from different people.
For me it is how uninteresting the girls are, how silly I find them acting like a character, especially when they heavily lean into it "I'm a time goddess" or some shit like that.
When I have tried watching in the past, I've caught groups of girls (just miserable to watch a bunch of younger women talking about nothing). When it's just one of them, they seem to be fairly mediocre at games, so that makes it less interesting for me as well.
I like women and females to be clear, but I think there is some dissonance with them pretending to be an anime girl, which I assume is because they are ugly. I know that not all of them are ugly, but It is my knee-jerk reaction to hiding behind an avatar instead.
That is probably enough reasons? Despite being very into anime for most of my life, this is something that just really doesn't resonate with me. I am however quite curious about the people keeping these girls afloat, because I don't know a single person (irl) that participates in that community and I purely know about them due to being terminally online.
Not trying to judge any of you guys either, just curious about the type of people watching this.
The leaning into their character I do get, considering a lot of vtubers just drop it, but a lot of what makes vtubing work is the communities around each talent. I'm thinking a lot of them being 'uninteresting' may or may not be because of how long chatting goes on for, but I also know a lot of vtuber's 'past lives' (the 'official' term for their other accounts, including IRL and non-corpo vtuber accounts for corporate vtubers).
Maybe it's just me but my definition of mediocre and others is pretty different because I mostly play fighting games, where the degree of how good you are can vary massively because you can be the best player in your region and get demolished by the best players in the world, but you're still very good because objectively you get pretty damn far in tournaments, but I wouldn't necessarily say many of them are mediocre, some of them, like Dokibird/Selen Tatsuki for example, are genuinely pro level at some of their games (her specifically would be Overwatch and Apex Legends).
On the 'hiding' front, at this point I say it's mostly for the sake of aesthetic + security. A lot more independent vtubers also show their faces than corporate vtubers as a whole, but just from finding out different vtuber's PLs and seeing what they look like, it's aesthetic and security. Security mainly because I genuinely didn't understand how desperate the modern man can become until I saw the tweet where Pokimane's former editor actively admitted that he occasionally was late delivering/uploading videos for her because he was fapping to her, and actually admitted that.
The brain of a man who can actively admit that has to be the brain of a man who delusionally believes he can get some, which is also the reason why most female streamers hide their boyfriends, because those boyfriends have almost always gotten death threats spammed to them from being found, which is ridiculous. Albeit with vtubers, some of that attitude is purposely cultivated by the corporations because corporate vtubing (or at least Hololive) is an extension of Asian idol culture.
There's a lot more hot IRL vtubers than there are not, to the point where some of them 'match the model' if you catch my drift.
I'm primarily a clip watcher who mostly got into vtubers because Moist Critikal/Charlie/penguinz0 was covering the Dokibird/Selen Tatsuki situation when it happened and I had heard and seen clips of them for years, just never really bothered following them really until then.
That is all pretty fair and it is disingenuous of me to say they are all mediocre, I have only seen a handful and they may be playing something like minecraft or some current/modern meme game where skill doesn't really matter.
I am not a fan of female streamers myself, for similar reasons as vtubers probably. I really only watch certain competitive games I am interested in like dota2 and fighting games.
I did hear about that Pokimane situation and had the exact same thought about what kind of pathetic man can do that at all, even in privacy, much less announce it to the world that way. Something about that guy really makes me feel better about myself just for not being him, lol.
All that to say I am not really anti vtuber, I just don't know any vtuber fans and it does seem like a concept that should appeal to me in theory. I probably worded things more harshly or negatively than intended.
He had a porn and fap addiction which put him behind on work yes, but that was it. Both degenerate, but saying you have a problem and saying to your employer that you have a problem fapping to that employer, different levels of degen.
This is what happened. She's not a victim except as much as any other employer with an employee with an addiction failing to meet deadlines and promises is.
What are your thoughts on non-vtube streamers? I was in the same position as you, but then realized I actually like vtubers more normal streamers, but dislike both.
They emit an aura of fakeness. It sets off the part of my brain that's spent years building up alarms towards fake testimonials, scams, marketing speak, bots, etc. Even if it's in good fun, I can't quite shake the persistent thought of, "I'm being played right now."
Now that said.... I'm not without a certain appreciation for the more unfiltered vtubers. I just stick to "best of" clips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1_mo37Y7to
I find pretty much any type of singular streamer hard to watch, I mentioned in another comment but I just like to watch competitive events like dota2 tournaments or fighting game tournaments from time to time.
I've watched a handful of wow streamers that I liked for awhile, a paladin player and a warrior player that did arenas. But trying to watch normal/popular/big streamers has always felt painful and fake is a great word for the entire concept.
I have definitely enjoyed the best of clips as well, there are some funny situations and memes from vtubers I have loved.
On the surface, its just streaming. You find a "personality" you like and watch them do their thing. Except in this case they are openly playing a "character" with all the benefits that provides over basic facecam streaming. If you don't watch streamers a lot, you won't watch vtubers neither.
In reality it usually comes down to even more obsessed parasocial relationships. Its closer to a mix of the girl-produced ASMR industry with the Japanese Idol culture than anything else.
So if you never got into Idols or wierd ASMR stuff, you'd never like most vtubers. The handful of exceptions might be people who like Mori's music or the edgy memesters like Pipkin who can appeal outside those bubbles.
That is a good way to describe it, probably most streaming from personalities just isn't for me and that is part of it for sure.
I definitely see the idol culture in it, I suppose it was only a matter of time as technology has improved to make anime girls "real" to some level as I have seen they do 3d stuff too and not just stationary stuff.
Yagoo's actively trying to make vtubing go mainstream, in my eyes that's the only reason the Dodgers game is even happening, because he actively wants vtubing to become as big as possible, but that may or may not backfire, considering how many Holo models have wobbly chests that certain people may or may not complain about.
When it comes to these larger companies yes. One of the only VTubers I watch stream is just someone who use to stream with their Webcam but found it annoying to have to worry about how they looked, so just started using a 2D/3D model. She is just being herself playing Final Fantasy 14 mostly as she always has.