I don't see why it needs strict movement control and state allocated resources. I see it - the ideal version at least - as having everything within 15 minutes to eliminate the need for most inter-district travel. It doesn't have to involve the sort of hard control that these cunts want to take. Incentivize it, make it logistically convenient, and let people decide for themselves. I think it'd provide a lot of benefits.
Just because criminals and tyrants want to implement a warped and twisted version of something, doesn't mean a good version of that thing is impossible to achieve if it's voluntary and realistic in scale. And if it's built fresh instead of rammed into existing cities.
Because it's not possible to have voluntary system in a 15 minute city that won't get hit with scarcity from people who are outside of the 15 minute zone.
If you have freedom of movement, someone will attempt to fulfill a need somewhere else because they won't get what they want in the proscribed manner in accordance with their individual desires. The moment they do this, they will cause further disruptions of the highly ordered system, and create a cascading failure.
They have to be stopped, normally with significant threat of force, otherwise they will create shortages in places which were never meant to accommodate them.
And all of that assumes perfectly competent organization. In reality, shit will be so broken that people will have to seek out the resources of other districts. This will not only do all of the same things, but will also show the incompetency of the government, which will necessitate a violent response in order for them to maintain legitimacy.
It's not an option. It's not because bad people exist. It's because the policies asked for are impossible without a level of control that demands tyrannical coercion to protect and enforce those very policies.
If you have freedom of movement, someone will attempt to fulfill a need somewhere else because they won't get what they want in the proscribed manner in accordance with their individual desires.
So what? Let's say you have 75% of people getting what they want within their 15 minute city and 25% are leaving to fulfill needs elsewhere. That's still largely a success.
You're making the assumption that these would be 'highly ordered systems' reliant on authoritarian control. Yes, the ones they want to implement would be like that, but that's not required for the idea itself. I'm talking purely about infrastructure and layout. There doesn't need to be restriction on movement, there doesn't need to be resource allocation or price control. It's just a matter of arranging the districts so all needs can be met locally. It's about logistics, incentive, efficiency and convenience. At most, you're being authoritarian about zoning, traffic and infrastructure.
If it doesn't have a 100% success rate and people are choosing to go outside their districts, so what? The point isn't to get zero extra-district movement, it's to lower it. On the other hand, if the majority of residents decide they don't like it and they move away, then it's a failure that wasted resources, but at least it was voluntary.
If it doesn't have a 100% success rate and people are choosing to go outside their districts, so what?
That literally defeats the entire purpose of the 15 minute city. It causes an inevitable chain reaction that means the city can't be supported as the district is organized, leading to a resulting need for more enforcement, leading to more population, movement, and financial control, leading to tyranny.
It's like having a "little" price control. The price controls are self-defeating without totalitarianism. There isn't another way.
What you want is Localism. People live in small communities that have what they want. You don't get that with mass urban planning.
That literally defeats the entire purpose of the 15 minute city.
Not if the purpose is literally just to put everything in walking distance so most people can choose to meet their needs locally. 100% adherence isn't required, there is no chain reaction if there isn't a perfect success rate. I don't know why you insist on assuming top-down control that grips tighter and tighter if there's any deviation from the plan. I've told you I'm talking purely about infrastructure and incentive, a voluntary system that uses urban planning to encourage trends, not enforce adherence.
Yes, it's trickier doing it with urban planning rather than in separate small communities, and probably the biggest hurdle is making sure people are able to be employed locally. There's no perfect answer to that, but the ability to work from home helps.
I'm just saying if it's voluntary and not authoritarian, there are many potential benefits and few meaningful downsides. It would be an experiment worth trying if enough people were on board and enough resources were available. That's all hypothetical of course, but it's not an inherently awful concept.
I don't see why it needs strict movement control and state allocated resources. I see it - the ideal version at least - as having everything within 15 minutes to eliminate the need for most inter-district travel. It doesn't have to involve the sort of hard control that these cunts want to take. Incentivize it, make it logistically convenient, and let people decide for themselves. I think it'd provide a lot of benefits.
Just because criminals and tyrants want to implement a warped and twisted version of something, doesn't mean a good version of that thing is impossible to achieve if it's voluntary and realistic in scale. And if it's built fresh instead of rammed into existing cities.
Because it's not possible to have voluntary system in a 15 minute city that won't get hit with scarcity from people who are outside of the 15 minute zone.
If you have freedom of movement, someone will attempt to fulfill a need somewhere else because they won't get what they want in the proscribed manner in accordance with their individual desires. The moment they do this, they will cause further disruptions of the highly ordered system, and create a cascading failure.
They have to be stopped, normally with significant threat of force, otherwise they will create shortages in places which were never meant to accommodate them.
And all of that assumes perfectly competent organization. In reality, shit will be so broken that people will have to seek out the resources of other districts. This will not only do all of the same things, but will also show the incompetency of the government, which will necessitate a violent response in order for them to maintain legitimacy.
It's not possible to have movement control without tyranny. It's not possible to have resource allocation without tyranny. It's not possible to have price controls without tyranny.
It's not an option. It's not because bad people exist. It's because the policies asked for are impossible without a level of control that demands tyrannical coercion to protect and enforce those very policies.
So what? Let's say you have 75% of people getting what they want within their 15 minute city and 25% are leaving to fulfill needs elsewhere. That's still largely a success.
You're making the assumption that these would be 'highly ordered systems' reliant on authoritarian control. Yes, the ones they want to implement would be like that, but that's not required for the idea itself. I'm talking purely about infrastructure and layout. There doesn't need to be restriction on movement, there doesn't need to be resource allocation or price control. It's just a matter of arranging the districts so all needs can be met locally. It's about logistics, incentive, efficiency and convenience. At most, you're being authoritarian about zoning, traffic and infrastructure.
If it doesn't have a 100% success rate and people are choosing to go outside their districts, so what? The point isn't to get zero extra-district movement, it's to lower it. On the other hand, if the majority of residents decide they don't like it and they move away, then it's a failure that wasted resources, but at least it was voluntary.
That literally defeats the entire purpose of the 15 minute city. It causes an inevitable chain reaction that means the city can't be supported as the district is organized, leading to a resulting need for more enforcement, leading to more population, movement, and financial control, leading to tyranny.
It's like having a "little" price control. The price controls are self-defeating without totalitarianism. There isn't another way.
What you want is Localism. People live in small communities that have what they want. You don't get that with mass urban planning.
Not if the purpose is literally just to put everything in walking distance so most people can choose to meet their needs locally. 100% adherence isn't required, there is no chain reaction if there isn't a perfect success rate. I don't know why you insist on assuming top-down control that grips tighter and tighter if there's any deviation from the plan. I've told you I'm talking purely about infrastructure and incentive, a voluntary system that uses urban planning to encourage trends, not enforce adherence.
Yes, it's trickier doing it with urban planning rather than in separate small communities, and probably the biggest hurdle is making sure people are able to be employed locally. There's no perfect answer to that, but the ability to work from home helps.
I'm just saying if it's voluntary and not authoritarian, there are many potential benefits and few meaningful downsides. It would be an experiment worth trying if enough people were on board and enough resources were available. That's all hypothetical of course, but it's not an inherently awful concept.