I respect women just fine. I certainly don't think they are a universal evil.
But to turn a blind eye to their faults is beyond stupid. I am done making that mistake.
France, as a whole collaborated.
Bullshit.
The Germans could not have occupied France with ten times the troops. If the farmers had just sat down and refused to work, it would have been insurmountable. Even the tiny, tiny French Resistance made a real impact.
The French Police helped to deport French Jews to their deaths.
The Vichy French Authoritarian Government made use of the German Occupation to advance their own political goals and to consolidate power. In the beginning they had popular support.
I am certainly not painting French women in any better light than the French men of the time. However choosing to sleep with and have children with Nazi officers to gain social standing and resources is particularly odious to me. French women are certainly not unique in history in this regard.
But to turn a blind eye to their faults is beyond stupid. I am done making that mistake.
So two things: some of the faults people complain about are human universals. Like how the Imp always says that he does not trust women. Well duh. Neither should you trust men.
Secondly, there's some overgeneralization going on based on rather flimsy evidence. That's all.
I'm fine with criticizing or even trashing women, as long as it's based on proper evidence. For example, there is loads of evidence - and support from evolutionary psychology - that women go for high-status men. This may be power, wealth, strength, whatever. That's just a fact.
The Germans could not have occupied France with ten times the troops. If the farmers had just sat down and refused to work, it would have been insurmountable. Even the tiny, tiny French Resistance made a real impact.
And the whole of France would have starved. It's not as easy as you make it sound. If even 10% of conservative Americans engaged in any form of resistance, they could make a dent in the regime, but people simply don't.
Is the Smithsonian a good enough source for you?
Actually, no, because it was lately arguing that being on time is 'white supremacy'.
That said, I'm not disputing your claims. The French police did obey orders. But to just brand Vichy as 'collaborationist' is taking things too far. Petain was regularly attempting to undermine Hitler. He refused to join in the war against England. He sent orders to Darlan to not resist the allies in North Africa. He asked Franco to obstruct Hitler re-inforcing North Africa. And when the south of France was occupied, the Vichy fleet was scuttled so that it wouldn't fall into the hands of the Germans.
None of this is to argue that he was perfect or even 'good'. Nor were all or even most Vichy officials like Petain. Only that things aren't as simple as "France collaborated". A lot of people tried to make the best of a bad situation, by for example saving French Jews while sacrificing Jews who had fled pogroms in Eastern Europe, and I'm not going to sit in judgment on them from my comfortable position.
That's all.
The Vichy French Authoritarian Government made use of the German Occupation to advance their own political goals and to consolidate power. In the beginning they had popular support.
Correct. It's worth mentioning that the armistice only had the north of France occupied until the conclusion of the war with Britain, which many believed would be rather soon.
However choosing to sleep with and have children with Nazi officers to gain social standing and resources is particularly odious to me.
It is, insofar as that was the motivation. But that was never what I disputed to begin with.
I've been very patient with you Tony.
[REDACTED]
I respect women just fine. I certainly don't think they are a universal evil.
But to turn a blind eye to their faults is beyond stupid. I am done making that mistake.
The Germans could not have occupied France with ten times the troops. If the farmers had just sat down and refused to work, it would have been insurmountable. Even the tiny, tiny French Resistance made a real impact.
The French Police helped to deport French Jews to their deaths.
Is the Smithsonian a good enough source for you?
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/vichy-government-france-world-war-ii-willingly-collaborated-nazis-180967160/
The Vichy French Authoritarian Government made use of the German Occupation to advance their own political goals and to consolidate power. In the beginning they had popular support.
I am certainly not painting French women in any better light than the French men of the time. However choosing to sleep with and have children with Nazi officers to gain social standing and resources is particularly odious to me. French women are certainly not unique in history in this regard.
I don't. Respect has to be earned.
So two things: some of the faults people complain about are human universals. Like how the Imp always says that he does not trust women. Well duh. Neither should you trust men.
Secondly, there's some overgeneralization going on based on rather flimsy evidence. That's all.
I'm fine with criticizing or even trashing women, as long as it's based on proper evidence. For example, there is loads of evidence - and support from evolutionary psychology - that women go for high-status men. This may be power, wealth, strength, whatever. That's just a fact.
And the whole of France would have starved. It's not as easy as you make it sound. If even 10% of conservative Americans engaged in any form of resistance, they could make a dent in the regime, but people simply don't.
Actually, no, because it was lately arguing that being on time is 'white supremacy'.
That said, I'm not disputing your claims. The French police did obey orders. But to just brand Vichy as 'collaborationist' is taking things too far. Petain was regularly attempting to undermine Hitler. He refused to join in the war against England. He sent orders to Darlan to not resist the allies in North Africa. He asked Franco to obstruct Hitler re-inforcing North Africa. And when the south of France was occupied, the Vichy fleet was scuttled so that it wouldn't fall into the hands of the Germans.
None of this is to argue that he was perfect or even 'good'. Nor were all or even most Vichy officials like Petain. Only that things aren't as simple as "France collaborated". A lot of people tried to make the best of a bad situation, by for example saving French Jews while sacrificing Jews who had fled pogroms in Eastern Europe, and I'm not going to sit in judgment on them from my comfortable position.
That's all.
Correct. It's worth mentioning that the armistice only had the north of France occupied until the conclusion of the war with Britain, which many believed would be rather soon.
It is, insofar as that was the motivation. But that was never what I disputed to begin with.