I'm giving this an upvote for the effort and the spark for a conversation. I think the title assumes that everyone here holds one particular view. There is only one retard who is hyperventilating about "MEN GETTING KILLED IN A WOMEN'S WAR!!!!"
One thing that has become apparent throughout the course of this war is that everyone in Eastern Europe that isn't in Russia or Belarus, even those trying to escape conscription, will not agree to a negotiation until Russia leaves Ukraine (and by that, they mean not only Donetsk and Luhansk, but also Crimea).
So because they have unreasonable demands, the corrupt West has to sink weapons and treasure into "Ukraine", and get a generation of Ukrainians killed, so that their unreasonable demands are satisfied, rather than that they be snapped out of it by the realities of the world?
To men in Eastern Europe, this is as serious to them as a world war, and they bring up angry memories of when Russia invaded the country of Georgia in 2008 and Chechnya earlier on in the 1990s into the early 2000s.
Chechnya is part of Russia. It is no "invasion". This point is nuts. Particularly when you portray the Georgian aggression against South Ossetia and Abkhazia as a Russian invasion. You may want to read up on that.
How come Chechnya has a right to secede from Russia, but SO and Abkhazia do not have a right to secede from Georgia, and the Donbas and Crimea have no right to secede from that corrupt puppet non-country?
after which Ukrainians and those in Eastern Europe will be willing to negotiate with Russia an end to the conflict.
Or... hear me out. Let Russia kick the crap out of that corrupt puppet non-country, and then they'll either negotiate or face occupation.
Cutting off the flow of weapons leaves Ukrainian troops without more powerful weapons, allowing Russian troops to advance.
So?
Regarding the possibility of Ukrainian troops striking inside Russia: they are already doing that, the threats from Russia that they'll retaliate are largely meant to intimidate and they would have done it by now if they really were as well equipped as they claim. Russia doesn't have as much capacity to strike as they claim.
Utter madness. "The bear didn't strike back the first time, so keep poking the bear!"
There will be increased chance of war in the decades to come as the west is seen as weak and appeasing Russia
Appeasing Russia? What does the corrupt, child-mutilating, warmongering West have to do with Soviet constituent republics to begin with? It's no more appeasement of Russia than Europe permitting the US to hold on to the territories it occupied in the Mexican-American War.
Not one thing Russian media says or repeats can be trusted, you will not get an accurate picture of this conflict by reading what is said in Russian media.
Agreed, but your problem is that you blindly trust what the corrupt Western media says.
Hungary is basically aligned with Russia
Earlier, you claimed the following:
"One thing that has become apparent throughout the course of this war is that everyone in Eastern Europe that isn't in Russia or Belarus, even those trying to escape conscription, will not agree to a negotiation until Russia leaves Ukraine"
Russians will likely capture Kyiv and slaughter every Ukrainian man they find across the country.
This is pretty crazy, to be honest. If they want a useless, depopulated desert, they can do it within 5 minutes.
After that, Russia, China and North Korea will be more emboldened to attack the west and pursue invasions that result in an increased chance of a world war in the years and decades to come.
Appeasing Russia? What does the corrupt, child-mutilating, warmongering West have to do with Soviet constituent republics to begin with? It's no more appeasement of Russia than Europe permitting the US to hold on to the territories it occupied in the Mexican-American War.
I think this is key. What's worse: Americans keeping their hands out of another countries business or Americans involving themselves in a war on behalf of a non-ally, then losing?
China really only cares abouy Taiwan because they think America could use it as a forward base to interfere in their domestic affairs. Do you think they'll be reassured by the US fighting a proxy war against Russia through Ukraine?
Important to remember too that this isn't Israel fighting a bunch of sand niggers. Russia once had one of the most powerful militaries in the world and, even though they've declined, they've been fighting conflicts for years. They have veteran forces where Ukraine was newly trained greenhorns. As we learned in Afghanistan, just giving the locals your fancy weapons does not win a war.
If the US goes all in on Ukraine, and doesn't win, China will definitely go after Taiwan and maybe even Japanese territory. If they do win, they'll waste trillions of dollars and years of public war exhaustion; no one is going to want a conflict with China after this, just to protect some island in the pacific, assuming China waits that long.
What's worse: Americans keeping their hands out of another countries business or Americans involving themselves in a war on behalf of a non-ally, then losing?
If you want to engage in ruthless geopolitics, then the second can be superior. If you believe that Russia is your enemy (which it's not, America made it one), and put weakening Russia above everything else, then it certainly can be worth it.
China really only cares abouy Taiwan because they think America could use it as a forward base to interfere in their domestic affairs. Do you think they'll be reassured by the US fighting a proxy war against Russia through Ukraine?
Yeah, I find it rather unlikely that China will be deterred. The best way to deter China, in my view at least, is to not worsen the situation for China. Shipping massive amounts of weapons to Taiwan will make it a now or never like it did for Russia.
They have veteran forces where Ukraine was newly trained greenhorns
I actually disagree. Ukraine has had 800,000 men spending the past 9 years terrorizing the Donbas. In total, not any given year. So there are a lot of men with military experience, though mostly shelling defenseless civilians. Russia has had low-footprint wars in Syria, and a pseudo-war in Chechnya against non-entities. So Ukraine definitely gets the + there.
I'm giving this an upvote for the effort and the spark for a conversation. I think the title assumes that everyone here holds one particular view. There is only one retard who is hyperventilating about "MEN GETTING KILLED IN A WOMEN'S WAR!!!!"
So because they have unreasonable demands, the corrupt West has to sink weapons and treasure into "Ukraine", and get a generation of Ukrainians killed, so that their unreasonable demands are satisfied, rather than that they be snapped out of it by the realities of the world?
Chechnya is part of Russia. It is no "invasion". This point is nuts. Particularly when you portray the Georgian aggression against South Ossetia and Abkhazia as a Russian invasion. You may want to read up on that.
How come Chechnya has a right to secede from Russia, but SO and Abkhazia do not have a right to secede from Georgia, and the Donbas and Crimea have no right to secede from that corrupt puppet non-country?
Or... hear me out. Let Russia kick the crap out of that corrupt puppet non-country, and then they'll either negotiate or face occupation.
So?
Utter madness. "The bear didn't strike back the first time, so keep poking the bear!"
Appeasing Russia? What does the corrupt, child-mutilating, warmongering West have to do with Soviet constituent republics to begin with? It's no more appeasement of Russia than Europe permitting the US to hold on to the territories it occupied in the Mexican-American War.
Agreed, but your problem is that you blindly trust what the corrupt Western media says.
Earlier, you claimed the following:
"One thing that has become apparent throughout the course of this war is that everyone in Eastern Europe that isn't in Russia or Belarus, even those trying to escape conscription, will not agree to a negotiation until Russia leaves Ukraine"
This is pretty crazy, to be honest. If they want a useless, depopulated desert, they can do it within 5 minutes.
Who will be on the other side of that world war?
I think this is key. What's worse: Americans keeping their hands out of another countries business or Americans involving themselves in a war on behalf of a non-ally, then losing?
China really only cares abouy Taiwan because they think America could use it as a forward base to interfere in their domestic affairs. Do you think they'll be reassured by the US fighting a proxy war against Russia through Ukraine?
Important to remember too that this isn't Israel fighting a bunch of sand niggers. Russia once had one of the most powerful militaries in the world and, even though they've declined, they've been fighting conflicts for years. They have veteran forces where Ukraine was newly trained greenhorns. As we learned in Afghanistan, just giving the locals your fancy weapons does not win a war.
If the US goes all in on Ukraine, and doesn't win, China will definitely go after Taiwan and maybe even Japanese territory. If they do win, they'll waste trillions of dollars and years of public war exhaustion; no one is going to want a conflict with China after this, just to protect some island in the pacific, assuming China waits that long.
If you want to engage in ruthless geopolitics, then the second can be superior. If you believe that Russia is your enemy (which it's not, America made it one), and put weakening Russia above everything else, then it certainly can be worth it.
Yeah, I find it rather unlikely that China will be deterred. The best way to deter China, in my view at least, is to not worsen the situation for China. Shipping massive amounts of weapons to Taiwan will make it a now or never like it did for Russia.
I actually disagree. Ukraine has had 800,000 men spending the past 9 years terrorizing the Donbas. In total, not any given year. So there are a lot of men with military experience, though mostly shelling defenseless civilians. Russia has had low-footprint wars in Syria, and a pseudo-war in Chechnya against non-entities. So Ukraine definitely gets the + there.