I think it's interesting this thread is still so active. For the record, I didn't downvote you.

Nor do I downvote you, I enjoy the conversation.

I believe the vaccine is fairly useless, and I don't think 'nothing' is a big difference, but I realize that's not something many people can accept, and that's fine.

It's not necessarily that I can't accept it. It's just that I haven't seen convincing evidence for it. It's a pretty extraordinary claim, because it does go against the grain of most of the evidence I've seen, so I do expect extraordinary evidence. Talking about hospitalization/death.

So you could get hit anyway before 'immunity' kicks in, you could get vaccine side effects that outweigh the benefits, etc.

Well yeah, that is definitely a possible. But that is why I mentioned people of rather advanced age, for whom the benefits are greatest and side-effects (at least myocarditis) the least. I think we agree that if the benefits outweigh the side-effects by 10-1, hypothetically, that it would be worth it, not? If they were even, there's little point in getting the vaccine. They have to at least substantially outweigh the costs.

True, but I also believe there is a more correct side and a less correct side. Not calling you a fence-sitter, for the record. I think that's pretty silly.

It's extremely hurtful. I like being called anti-vaxx by pro-vaxx and a vax-pusher by the anti-Covid-vax crowd. Same as I'm called far-right by people on the left and far-left by people on the right.

If you take two positions, it's easy to say who is more wrong, but to say who is 'more wrong'. The pro-vaxx are more wrong because their stupid actually has real-world consequences. The folks who are on the extreme end of the anti-Covid-vaxx say dumber stuff, so by that measure they are more wrong. E.g. our very own Imp saying that 90% would die from the vaccine.

Supporting the vaccine? I doubt it. Some, maybe. But I think the lines have been drawn. I think people know where they stand, and plenty of people - his own supporters - were calling Trump out when he was still the president.

Partisanship is a helluva drug. If Kamala Harris were calling out vaccine side-effects, people would be very interested in trying to refute that. Even in the form of "I'm no fan of this vaccine myself, BUT".

Admittedly, I'm predisposed to believe in people's hypocrisy as I believe people to be quite wicked - everyone, not just the left. But at the very least, the criticism of hte vaccine came from the left when T was President.

Then the midterms happened, and the Republican leadership showed themselves to be even more traitorous than expected.

I'm quite happy with McCarthy, especially after the concessions. It's basically the best we could have expected.

Trump, sadly, has a ton of character flaws...but I think he's a useful tool to, among other things, reshape the Republican party into something better. He'll also be less authoritarian toward me than almost any Democrat. I'm fairly reluctantly back on the Trump train for now.

For me, it's not about substance. Trump losing means a third party bid or Trump not supporting the GOP candidate, which means disaster. So it's Trump or bust, though obviously, if he loses I will support a DeSantis - but not a Romney.