Of course not, don't be obtuse. We're talking averages. The rise in heart attacks in the young is due to the vaccine. That seems pretty dang clear cut.

Is it? Only a short while back, the same sort of people were absolutely sure that the lockdown had absolutely devastating impacts on people's (mental) health. Because you can't go out, you can't go to the gym, you're stressed, you're depressed.

Now, all of a sudden, the lockdown had zero effect on heart health, and all of it has to be because of the vaccine, because that is the new Mirror Current Thing.

Theoretically, it's not even impossible. But that has to be demonstrated, and not just asserted. "The vaccine is the cause of these heart attacks because I don't like it" is not much of an argument.

According to who? The same people who lied to us about literally everything?

What reason is there to lie about this? This came at the same time they were attempting to persuade young people to get the vaccine. If they were going to lie, they'd invert the numbers: because with the asserted vaccine efficacy, those number of side-effects would still be well worth it for older people who are more at risk of the virus.

So I have to believe that they released information that was damaging to their own case, because... they just love lying?

No, they lie when it suits their interests.

Also, very early on we were told repeatedly that there were no side effects.

We were?

That would be very stupid of them, and not just because there did turn out to be side-effects. You can't assert a negative like that.

And that it stopped transmission.

What I take issue with is that they pushed experimental mRNA vaccines on people, with the excuse that they can be developed 'faster' - even though traditional vaccines were developed just as fast - and because they can be adjusted very quickly as new variants emerged... and they weren't.

I don't get how you can act like this is normal, when they've changed what the "vaccine" is supposed to do so many times. It's extreme gaslighting.

The question for me is not if they are bad people. Of course they are. That goes without saying. But that doesn't many any specific claim true or false.

It may be that an increase in heart attacks is due to the vaccine. But that is an empirical claim. It is not proven by "well, they lied about this and that in the past". I'm not sure we'll ever know. If they are, I expect them to try to cover it up. And if they're not, I don't think I'll believe the evidence they present for their claims.

That may be true if the vaccine worked. It doesn't.

It does work to reduce hospitalization and death. I'm not deep enough in the rabbit hole to believe that it does literally nothing except cause side-effects.

Secondly, the vaccine doesn't even seem to work, and in fact lowers immune response after some time. So if that person is willing to go on a subscription service where they die if they stop taking it...maybe? Maybe it's right for them. Personally I'd still stay pureblood and roll the dice, even if I was ninety years old.

I'd be first in line if I were 90. And I think objectively, that is the correct course of action. It's such a shame that people allow ideology to overrule something like that. You can see the issue when parents are enthusiastic about getting their 16-year-olds the vaccine, but then retain your own blind spots.