There is no reason to assume the assaulter would come to his senses.
It's actually NOT about making the dude come to his senses. First, it generally does work to stop mentally ill, and even dedicated attackers. Second, it blinds and incapacitates your attacker to a degree allowing you to escape, or even further attack them, equalizing the playing field on a stronger opponent. Third, again: it blinds and partially incapacitates them, meaning that their attacks on YOU are going to be weakend. Fourth, it actually helps in your justification to switching to lethal force because "He was so fucking crazy that after I maced him he still attacked me! I reasonably feared for my life since he was so aggressive."
Also, given the confined space, the clerk would have just as likely been macing himself
Depends on the mace. You want mace that goes out in a stream, not a fogger. You're gonna feel some spice, but it won't be nearly as bad as what they are getting.
Maybe from the legal perspective in a fundamentally broken jurisdiction, but in reality, when it comes down to violent conflict, you do not want to meet force with equal force. You want overwhelming force to stop an attacker and end the conflict. Anything less risks prolonging the fight and injuring innocent parties.
If you're a cop that makes sense, because we task the police with being a giant blunt-force object that everyone is required to obey, at least initially.
You don't want to use overwhelming force most of the time. It makes you look like the bad guy to other people who might intervene, and disproportional violence is not an appropriate solution in any just society. If you keep poking me, it is wrong for me to wheel around and hit you in the skull with a shovel, causing you permanent brain-damage and destroying your life... because you were annoying.
That's not a good society to live in, that's a horrible and terrible society where no one can be trusted not to fly off the handle. Most ghettos work like that because it's a kind of Honor Culture that is enforced through social violence. All minor slights have overwhelming and nearly lethal consequences, and the world is worse for it.
Proportional force doesn't mean equal. It just means within reason.
This is the line in a civilized society, and individual citizens have the moral right to hold that line.
Look, I think we live in a society that has made all social violence unacceptable, when it should be acceptable.
I would much rather prefer a cop taze me for 3 seconds for doing 15 mph over the speed limit, taze me for 10 for going 40 over, and macing me for other general infractions. A lot of people need to get their ass beat. Hell, I'd go so far that women need to get their ass beat for being so entitled they decide to maul a fucking restaurant because extra sauce was too expensive.
And yes, there should be the underlying concern that "I don't know this person, and if i act badly, or take things too far, I could get shot". That's a good thing.
Hell, I think it's downright unacceptable that we can't buy stingball grenades. That's how you stop these stupid flash mobs.
But proportionality still plays a part in all of that. We need a society that is:
A) prepared to use force to stop innocent people's lives and property from being harmed
B) prepared to be stoic in the face of some provocation. Because some shit isn't worth getting violent over.
I've 100% reversed my position on this because I got new information, so I have to preface my response with that.
It's actually NOT about making the dude come to his senses. First, it generally does work to stop mentally ill, and even dedicated attackers. Second, it blinds and incapacitates your attacker to a degree allowing you to escape, or even further attack them, equalizing the playing field on a stronger opponent. Third, again: it blinds and partially incapacitates them, meaning that their attacks on YOU are going to be weakend. Fourth, it actually helps in your justification to switching to lethal force because "He was so fucking crazy that after I maced him he still attacked me! I reasonably feared for my life since he was so aggressive."
Depends on the mace. You want mace that goes out in a stream, not a fogger. You're gonna feel some spice, but it won't be nearly as bad as what they are getting.
If you're a cop that makes sense, because we task the police with being a giant blunt-force object that everyone is required to obey, at least initially.
You don't want to use overwhelming force most of the time. It makes you look like the bad guy to other people who might intervene, and disproportional violence is not an appropriate solution in any just society. If you keep poking me, it is wrong for me to wheel around and hit you in the skull with a shovel, causing you permanent brain-damage and destroying your life... because you were annoying.
That's not a good society to live in, that's a horrible and terrible society where no one can be trusted not to fly off the handle. Most ghettos work like that because it's a kind of Honor Culture that is enforced through social violence. All minor slights have overwhelming and nearly lethal consequences, and the world is worse for it.
Proportional force doesn't mean equal. It just means within reason.
Look, I think we live in a society that has made all social violence unacceptable, when it should be acceptable.
I would much rather prefer a cop taze me for 3 seconds for doing 15 mph over the speed limit, taze me for 10 for going 40 over, and macing me for other general infractions. A lot of people need to get their ass beat. Hell, I'd go so far that women need to get their ass beat for being so entitled they decide to maul a fucking restaurant because extra sauce was too expensive.
And yes, there should be the underlying concern that "I don't know this person, and if i act badly, or take things too far, I could get shot". That's a good thing.
Hell, I think it's downright unacceptable that we can't buy stingball grenades. That's how you stop these stupid flash mobs.
But proportionality still plays a part in all of that. We need a society that is: