You're right the Moors as a group varied in their numbers throughout the 800ish years of what is considered their rule of Spain.
Historically, both the Arab muslims and Berbers were never particularly known for their stable, expansive empires. So, those that did stay after the conquest of Spain/Portugal, had to make do virtually on their own. Those that couldn't left.
But considering 800 years, average lifespan of 35ish, that is 23 generations of interbreeding...
Also this is during the end of the Middle ages, and I have no idea as to the efficacy of efforts to expel a people (I know this was about the time of the Reconquista but that would just add to the chaos).
You're right the Moors as a group varied in their numbers throughout the 800ish years of what is considered their rule of Spain.
They 'ruled' for about 500 years at best. Their power was broken after 1212. Even before that, the Christian powers had been the dominant powers in the Iberian peninsula since the death of Al-Mansur in the early 1000s.
Historically, both the Arab muslims and Berbers were never particularly known for their stable, expansive empires
What does this mean? The Arab Muslims imposed their savagery from Spain to the Indus.
But considering 800 years, average lifespan of 35ish, that is 23 generations of interbreeding...
Whoever interbred with the Muslims, had descendants who were part of the Muslims. Some of the Martyrs of Cordoba were products of Muslim-Christian marriages who became Christian.
The descendants of these converts to Islam were later all expelled.
Also this is during the end of the Middle ages, and I have no idea as to the efficacy of efforts to expel a people (I know this was about the time of the Reconquista but that would just add to the chaos).
Probably not as effective as it would be today. But as for the end of the Middle Ages, the Moriscos were a separate population. They were both geographically separate and they lived separately as a community. No doubt there was some intermingling, but not as much as you think.
From the 1100's on it was a 300 year back and forth between individual caliphates and a mini-crusade. With every major city swapping sides multiple times. And with almost all the major cities of the peninsula starting out in various caliphates hands.
It was a nonsense filler to point out that the muslims in Spain were not unified. Between each other and the wider muslim world. If a spanish caliphate was failing those people would leave or attack somewhere else. The Berbers would leave at random, mostly to attack and pillage somewhere else.
Too your other two points, to a greater or lesser degree, you agree the moors and their descendants are still there (and I agree that it is probably the latter).
Also, because you made me look some of this up, counter point: Oran fatwa (Taqiyya but specific to Spain, issued in the 1500's). And apparently, almost 5.5 million muslims at their "height", out of 7 million inhabitants.
edit: last part is more of a interesting statistic then a counter point.
You're right the Moors as a group varied in their numbers throughout the 800ish years of what is considered their rule of Spain.
Historically, both the Arab muslims and Berbers were never particularly known for their stable, expansive empires. So, those that did stay after the conquest of Spain/Portugal, had to make do virtually on their own. Those that couldn't left.
But considering 800 years, average lifespan of 35ish, that is 23 generations of interbreeding...
Also this is during the end of the Middle ages, and I have no idea as to the efficacy of efforts to expel a people (I know this was about the time of the Reconquista but that would just add to the chaos).
edit: and later the Inquisition.
They 'ruled' for about 500 years at best. Their power was broken after 1212. Even before that, the Christian powers had been the dominant powers in the Iberian peninsula since the death of Al-Mansur in the early 1000s.
What does this mean? The Arab Muslims imposed their savagery from Spain to the Indus.
Whoever interbred with the Muslims, had descendants who were part of the Muslims. Some of the Martyrs of Cordoba were products of Muslim-Christian marriages who became Christian.
The descendants of these converts to Islam were later all expelled.
Probably not as effective as it would be today. But as for the end of the Middle Ages, the Moriscos were a separate population. They were both geographically separate and they lived separately as a community. No doubt there was some intermingling, but not as much as you think.
From the 1100's on it was a 300 year back and forth between individual caliphates and a mini-crusade. With every major city swapping sides multiple times. And with almost all the major cities of the peninsula starting out in various caliphates hands.
It was a nonsense filler to point out that the muslims in Spain were not unified. Between each other and the wider muslim world. If a spanish caliphate was failing those people would leave or attack somewhere else. The Berbers would leave at random, mostly to attack and pillage somewhere else.
Too your other two points, to a greater or lesser degree, you agree the moors and their descendants are still there (and I agree that it is probably the latter).
Also, because you made me look some of this up, counter point: Oran fatwa (Taqiyya but specific to Spain, issued in the 1500's). And apparently, almost 5.5 million muslims at their "height", out of 7 million inhabitants.
edit: last part is more of a interesting statistic then a counter point.