You know what, you're right. You didn't violate that rule. I'm sorry.
You've really internalized that shit.
Honestly, it's hard to shift between one and the other because I did internalize Reddit rules in order to understand it. I can't not be a retard when I have to be a retard to understand how to be a good retard.
You're generally pretty reasonable. That probably would have went better if I'd remembered that initially, and I can sympathize with your schizophrenic mod duties. No need to apologize, but I appreciate it.
On a side note, why don't you just make a rule against antisemitism here? I know you and AoV both despise it more than other forms of identitarianism. It would piss off a lot of the current community, since you wouldn't have the benefit of a doubt that having the reddit admins hovering over you has given you, but you guys both seem to want to grow the community without those viewpoints driving off lukewarm moderates.
There is a need to apologize for incorrect enforcement regardless.
On a side note, why don't you just make a rule against antisemitism here? I know you and AoV both despise it more than other forms of identitarianism.
So, neither of us actually do. I'm not gonna try to speak for AoV more than that, because that shit ain't my place. As for me, I'm utterly opposed to racialism, but antisemitism and anti-blackness are popular forms of racism on the right. Anti-whiteness has become so institutionally acceptable on the Left at this point that it's probably the thing I'm going to get fired for fighting against it IRL. The issue isn't that there's anything particularly unique about antisemitism, it's just that it happens to be the one that the racialist right explicitly agitates for in the same way that the racialist left does, which means it really grinds on people and relies on a lot of surreptitious arguments.
Now look, I probably wouldn't give a fuck if normies had more of a god damned spine, but... they're like Free Speech virgins. There's a reason men as they get older don't want to fuck young virginal women. There's too much hand holding involved.
"But what if it hurts!" "What if I don't like it!" "I'm not sure if I'm comfortable!"
Meanwhile I got some stormfag trying to groom the normies by 'hiding their power-level' into enjoying antisemetic face-fucking. Please don't face-fuck the virgins.
I don't have a problem with face-fucking degeneracy. It's the grooming that I have a problem with. Like an LGBT Summer camp. The problem is the grooming. Not the boating, not the camping, not the song & dance.
The normies, literally all of them, are going to have to learn how to stand up to unapproved viewpoints without running away. But that includes not scaring them away. None of us are ever going to have a free society until the normies can stand up for their own viewpoints, and deal with opposing viewpoints, and resist grooming by socialists.
Now, this is why you should have strong borders. People would have to invest something into this effort... but that diminishes growth (particularly on something as irrelevant as an internet forum)... which diminishes impact. Sure, 4chan has a border (much in the same way Poal does) by having users hit an ideological wall that attacks their sensitivity. But that limits immigration, and there's our real trade off. The alt-right/alt-left will isolate themselves to the point of death because they want affirmation and grooming. Trolls and activists could turn this place into a battlefield (like they did with he r-WalkAway sub a few years ago) and drive normies away with conflict. But what's worse is that the normies are too weak and cowardly to just depart with that sensitivity on their own because they've already been groomed by corporations.
So, it seems like I need to approach this whole set up with a weird balancing act that can slowly let people learn how to have moral courage and ideological integrity through speech; while not driving off normies, intellectuals, or influencers with edginess. Consider that, as big as 4chan is, who advertises on the forum? If we are to build parallel institutions, we'll need people to show of their work.
I think our Reddit sub was actually making good progress since it seemed like we had a wide enough overton window for the sub as a whole, that each post could have it's own overton window by having it's own unique audiance. It indicated that multiple social networks were operating on the sub. It's evidence that we weren't an echo-chamber (which is quite a feat since that's what Reddit is designed to do automatically). That's where we kinda gotta get back to.
Good post, DoM. Thanks for responding and laying it out. Could you clarify what you believe to be grooming to be? If I were to guess, it would be things like noticing and pointing out disproportions along racial and ethnic lines without being overt and hateful about it. Is that far off base?
I think you're being sarcastic and deceitful, but it's still a valid question.
Yes, it's obviously far off base. Obviously 13-50, 12-56, and 6-56 are not forms of grooming. Disparities do not equate to discrimination because equality is never the norm.
It's the way in which the racialists, both left and right, behave to get their point across, mostly by 'hiding their power-level' from normies instead of being honest about their actual positions.
Instead of arguing from the racial theory of history, and approaching that on it's points, the point is to goad a normie into accepting the racial theory of history by intentionally skewing someone's experiential knowledge by using conditioning and affirmation.
Because racialists use mental conditioning tactics to harp on the assertion. Normalcy of this conditioning through institutions promotes this perspective. Then, you add virtue signaling in social groups through affirmation. They key is to trigger the person with a cue each time they hear a story. Then, go further down this path by rationalizing the affirmation and conditioning you've basically programmed into someone through both shared experience and an 'intellectual' class that can create a theory or hypothesis for you. Eventually, you get to the point of conditioning people into simply accepting things like the racial theory of history, and they've gone through so much conditioning that saying that it might not be true is absolutely ludicrous to them. Why? Because their experiential knowledge matches what their rationalization is, because they've been effectively back-rationalized for years to arrive at a pre-determined conclusion.
Why do black people think that cops want to kill them when they walk outside?
Because literally everyone they know talks about racist cops, racist cops, racist cops. White people hate you. White people want to kill you. Cops will shoot you. Cops don't shoot white people. Racist cops. That's the only reason they'd pull you over. Racist cops. That's why you're in trouble. They'd let a white person go. Racist cops The anti-white rhetoric is so institutionalized that it's simply accepted as unquestioned fact. No one would ever disagree.
Most of these people are already at the final stage, but the kids growing up are always taught to look for where a white person was being racist to you, because he has to be racist to you eventually. Every time they speak to a white person: "What does he mean by that?", "What is he thinking?", "Why is he acting that way?", "Did he say it because I'm black?". Then a white guy uses the word "boy" and it acts as a trigger. It doesn't matter what it was about, doesn't matter why he used it, doesn't matter if the explicit context of the conversation was about boys & girls, that word acts as a trigger to prove that you're dealing with a racist. That's the conditioning and affirmation.
Didn't you see what the man on TV? It's those racist cops again. They shot another black man down. They can't help themselves. Was the cop white? Yes. Of course he was. No? Doesn't matter. He was serving whites. The whites always benefit. Doesn't that make you mad? Good. You should talk about it.
Then you've got to share those experiences with others. Everybody gets to tell their story about those racist fucking crackers being racist. Everyone has a story because everyone's experienced it. If you haven't then you weren't paying close enough attention. Go back and get affirmation again. Interacted with a white person and you didn't feel like he was racist? Maybe it's you. Maybe you got the white devil in you? Maybe your a coon? Don't you realize that they hate you. Look what they've turned you into. You're just their pet. Get with the rest of us. Recognize that they hate you. Find the confirmation bias. Get the affirmation.
Good, now you've got the affirmation. Everyone agrees. We're all onboard together. We're not like the whites. Why are the whites like this, we didn't do anything to them! Why are they so obsessed with being racist? Why do they hate us so much? Oh, well, you didn't know this but the whites aren't even human, they were made by a mad scientist named Yakub. Didn't you know? The whites don't act like normal humans, remember all that conditioning I had you do? Of course you do. The whites don't act like humans because they aren't humans. They hate you because of how powerful you are. We was kangs and shit. You're much smarter than them. You know their secret. There are plenty of black people who don't even know this. You're in an exclusive and self-affirming club of Top MInds who understand the Caucasoid and his motivations.
Just remember, that cop out there, he hates you. You're everything he can't be. Smart, strong, powerful. He's jealous of you. He's an agent of what keeps you down! He's the embodiment of a thousand years of mayos that hate you and wish they were you! He can't stand to look at you. Did a black man get shot? Of course he did! Was it by a white man? Of course it was! Why? Because that's who white people are in their very souls! Uhuru!
Okay, but so how does the alt-right do the same thing?
Early Life. Early Life. Early Life. Check his name. Check her name. Look again. Find it. Find it. Find it. Find the Jew. Find the Jew. Every time. Every time. Every time. Look again. Every time. Early Life. Every time. Check Nose. Check Name. That's a Jewish name, right? No? Did she change her name? She's probably just a secular Jew. Married in. Look again. She's employed by a Jew. There you go. They always benefit. What is it this time? Bet you he's a Jew. Early Life. Every Time. Every Time.
You saw it was a Jew right? Pol was right again. See, I told you. Every Time. Oy Vey. The Goyim know! Every Time. Early life, every time. Check nose. Don't agree? What, are you a fucking Jew too? What's your name? Post nose. Shut up. You hate whites. You're still brainwashed by their conditioning. We're not like that. We know about their tricks. We know what they do and how they work.
Why do they act like this? Why can't they not subvert everything? Why don't they act like humans? They don't act like humans because they aren't humans. They hate you because they know how powerful we are when we stand together. We're much smarter than them. We know their secrets. We're the Top Minds against the JIDF. We were kings and shit.
...
And so on and so forth. It follows the same pattern because the truth is, the followers of racialism are always getting played like this. That slow, methodical, corruption via conditioning is the grooming. It's the psychological control and manipulation.
The dark truth is that the reason the Left are so terrified of simple /pol memes is because they know that, if it's done right, it works. How the hell else would they have gotten to where they are if they didn't manipulate people's language and interrupt people's thought patterns with psychological conditioning?
You know what, you're right. You didn't violate that rule. I'm sorry.
Honestly, it's hard to shift between one and the other because I did internalize Reddit rules in order to understand it. I can't not be a retard when I have to be a retard to understand how to be a good retard.
You're generally pretty reasonable. That probably would have went better if I'd remembered that initially, and I can sympathize with your schizophrenic mod duties. No need to apologize, but I appreciate it.
On a side note, why don't you just make a rule against antisemitism here? I know you and AoV both despise it more than other forms of identitarianism. It would piss off a lot of the current community, since you wouldn't have the benefit of a doubt that having the reddit admins hovering over you has given you, but you guys both seem to want to grow the community without those viewpoints driving off lukewarm moderates.
There is a need to apologize for incorrect enforcement regardless.
So, neither of us actually do. I'm not gonna try to speak for AoV more than that, because that shit ain't my place. As for me, I'm utterly opposed to racialism, but antisemitism and anti-blackness are popular forms of racism on the right. Anti-whiteness has become so institutionally acceptable on the Left at this point that it's probably the thing I'm going to get fired for fighting against it IRL. The issue isn't that there's anything particularly unique about antisemitism, it's just that it happens to be the one that the racialist right explicitly agitates for in the same way that the racialist left does, which means it really grinds on people and relies on a lot of surreptitious arguments.
Now look, I probably wouldn't give a fuck if normies had more of a god damned spine, but... they're like Free Speech virgins. There's a reason men as they get older don't want to fuck young virginal women. There's too much hand holding involved.
"But what if it hurts!" "What if I don't like it!" "I'm not sure if I'm comfortable!"
Meanwhile I got some stormfag trying to groom the normies by 'hiding their power-level' into enjoying antisemetic face-fucking. Please don't face-fuck the virgins.
I don't have a problem with face-fucking degeneracy. It's the grooming that I have a problem with. Like an LGBT Summer camp. The problem is the grooming. Not the boating, not the camping, not the song & dance.
The normies, literally all of them, are going to have to learn how to stand up to unapproved viewpoints without running away. But that includes not scaring them away. None of us are ever going to have a free society until the normies can stand up for their own viewpoints, and deal with opposing viewpoints, and resist grooming by socialists.
Now, this is why you should have strong borders. People would have to invest something into this effort... but that diminishes growth (particularly on something as irrelevant as an internet forum)... which diminishes impact. Sure, 4chan has a border (much in the same way Poal does) by having users hit an ideological wall that attacks their sensitivity. But that limits immigration, and there's our real trade off. The alt-right/alt-left will isolate themselves to the point of death because they want affirmation and grooming. Trolls and activists could turn this place into a battlefield (like they did with he r-WalkAway sub a few years ago) and drive normies away with conflict. But what's worse is that the normies are too weak and cowardly to just depart with that sensitivity on their own because they've already been groomed by corporations.
So, it seems like I need to approach this whole set up with a weird balancing act that can slowly let people learn how to have moral courage and ideological integrity through speech; while not driving off normies, intellectuals, or influencers with edginess. Consider that, as big as 4chan is, who advertises on the forum? If we are to build parallel institutions, we'll need people to show of their work.
I think our Reddit sub was actually making good progress since it seemed like we had a wide enough overton window for the sub as a whole, that each post could have it's own overton window by having it's own unique audiance. It indicated that multiple social networks were operating on the sub. It's evidence that we weren't an echo-chamber (which is quite a feat since that's what Reddit is designed to do automatically). That's where we kinda gotta get back to.
Good post, DoM. Thanks for responding and laying it out. Could you clarify what you believe to be grooming to be? If I were to guess, it would be things like noticing and pointing out disproportions along racial and ethnic lines without being overt and hateful about it. Is that far off base?
I think you're being sarcastic and deceitful, but it's still a valid question.
Yes, it's obviously far off base. Obviously 13-50, 12-56, and 6-56 are not forms of grooming. Disparities do not equate to discrimination because equality is never the norm.
It's the way in which the racialists, both left and right, behave to get their point across, mostly by 'hiding their power-level' from normies instead of being honest about their actual positions.
Instead of arguing from the racial theory of history, and approaching that on it's points, the point is to goad a normie into accepting the racial theory of history by intentionally skewing someone's experiential knowledge by using conditioning and affirmation.
Because racialists use mental conditioning tactics to harp on the assertion. Normalcy of this conditioning through institutions promotes this perspective. Then, you add virtue signaling in social groups through affirmation. They key is to trigger the person with a cue each time they hear a story. Then, go further down this path by rationalizing the affirmation and conditioning you've basically programmed into someone through both shared experience and an 'intellectual' class that can create a theory or hypothesis for you. Eventually, you get to the point of conditioning people into simply accepting things like the racial theory of history, and they've gone through so much conditioning that saying that it might not be true is absolutely ludicrous to them. Why? Because their experiential knowledge matches what their rationalization is, because they've been effectively back-rationalized for years to arrive at a pre-determined conclusion.
Why do black people think that cops want to kill them when they walk outside?
Because literally everyone they know talks about racist cops, racist cops, racist cops. White people hate you. White people want to kill you. Cops will shoot you. Cops don't shoot white people. Racist cops. That's the only reason they'd pull you over. Racist cops. That's why you're in trouble. They'd let a white person go. Racist cops The anti-white rhetoric is so institutionalized that it's simply accepted as unquestioned fact. No one would ever disagree.
Most of these people are already at the final stage, but the kids growing up are always taught to look for where a white person was being racist to you, because he has to be racist to you eventually. Every time they speak to a white person: "What does he mean by that?", "What is he thinking?", "Why is he acting that way?", "Did he say it because I'm black?". Then a white guy uses the word "boy" and it acts as a trigger. It doesn't matter what it was about, doesn't matter why he used it, doesn't matter if the explicit context of the conversation was about boys & girls, that word acts as a trigger to prove that you're dealing with a racist. That's the conditioning and affirmation.
Didn't you see what the man on TV? It's those racist cops again. They shot another black man down. They can't help themselves. Was the cop white? Yes. Of course he was. No? Doesn't matter. He was serving whites. The whites always benefit. Doesn't that make you mad? Good. You should talk about it.
Then you've got to share those experiences with others. Everybody gets to tell their story about those racist fucking crackers being racist. Everyone has a story because everyone's experienced it. If you haven't then you weren't paying close enough attention. Go back and get affirmation again. Interacted with a white person and you didn't feel like he was racist? Maybe it's you. Maybe you got the white devil in you? Maybe your a coon? Don't you realize that they hate you. Look what they've turned you into. You're just their pet. Get with the rest of us. Recognize that they hate you. Find the confirmation bias. Get the affirmation.
Good, now you've got the affirmation. Everyone agrees. We're all onboard together. We're not like the whites. Why are the whites like this, we didn't do anything to them! Why are they so obsessed with being racist? Why do they hate us so much? Oh, well, you didn't know this but the whites aren't even human, they were made by a mad scientist named Yakub. Didn't you know? The whites don't act like normal humans, remember all that conditioning I had you do? Of course you do. The whites don't act like humans because they aren't humans. They hate you because of how powerful you are. We was kangs and shit. You're much smarter than them. You know their secret. There are plenty of black people who don't even know this. You're in an exclusive and self-affirming club of Top MInds who understand the Caucasoid and his motivations.
Just remember, that cop out there, he hates you. You're everything he can't be. Smart, strong, powerful. He's jealous of you. He's an agent of what keeps you down! He's the embodiment of a thousand years of mayos that hate you and wish they were you! He can't stand to look at you. Did a black man get shot? Of course he did! Was it by a white man? Of course it was! Why? Because that's who white people are in their very souls! Uhuru!
Okay, but so how does the alt-right do the same thing?
Early Life. Early Life. Early Life. Check his name. Check her name. Look again. Find it. Find it. Find it. Find the Jew. Find the Jew. Every time. Every time. Every time. Look again. Every time. Early Life. Every time. Check Nose. Check Name. That's a Jewish name, right? No? Did she change her name? She's probably just a secular Jew. Married in. Look again. She's employed by a Jew. There you go. They always benefit. What is it this time? Bet you he's a Jew. Early Life. Every Time. Every Time.
You saw it was a Jew right? Pol was right again. See, I told you. Every Time. Oy Vey. The Goyim know! Every Time. Early life, every time. Check nose. Don't agree? What, are you a fucking Jew too? What's your name? Post nose. Shut up. You hate whites. You're still brainwashed by their conditioning. We're not like that. We know about their tricks. We know what they do and how they work.
Why do they act like this? Why can't they not subvert everything? Why don't they act like humans? They don't act like humans because they aren't humans. They hate you because they know how powerful we are when we stand together. We're much smarter than them. We know their secrets. We're the Top Minds against the JIDF. We were kings and shit.
...
And so on and so forth. It follows the same pattern because the truth is, the followers of racialism are always getting played like this. That slow, methodical, corruption via conditioning is the grooming. It's the psychological control and manipulation.
The dark truth is that the reason the Left are so terrified of simple /pol memes is because they know that, if it's done right, it works. How the hell else would they have gotten to where they are if they didn't manipulate people's language and interrupt people's thought patterns with psychological conditioning?