I didn’t really hate Crystal Skull (I didn’t think aliens and flying saucers should be a bridge too far if one is cool with avenging angels and such from the other movies) so I’ll consider Indy as the star as a quadrilogy, but the main point stands, everyone gets to decide which movies “count” in their own mind because ultimately entertainment is in the eye of the beholder. You always have the right to reject a new franchise entry as far as you care.
It's not the aliens in Crystal Skull that bother me. Its the zany/cartoonish levels of danger and villains. Yes there was some of this in the previous 3, but it's just too much in 4. The refrigerator to survive a nuke. The overly sentient ants reacting instantly. The Keystone Cops style villains and chases. It just went full corny. If they had dialed things back just a little bit, I wouldn't 'hate' it. The tone. We accept Mola Ram in Temple of Doom ripping out hearts because it fits with the pulpy terror motif. Indy 4 is just ZaNy CrAzY man. If that makes sense.
It also started the 'bad dad' path for Indy. I get that they are trying to mirror his relationship with his own dad (Connery) but it was too heavy handed imo. Too disfunctional. Too finger wagging. I don't know, the movie has a weird ass vibe. Harrison Ford was already way too old in that one. Rickety and awkward. He should have played more of the Connery role to whomever they were going to pass the torch to. Shia was another failing in that sense. Though I don't overly hate the guy or his acting. He just wasn't a good fit for an Indy movie.
This. There's no one thing that sank Crystal Skull. The basic premise and setting were solid, Commies replacing Nazis and aliens replacing religion totally fits with the 1950's.
LeBouf was a poor casting choice, and the action bordered on slapstick at times.
I think it also suffered from not really having a moral element like the first three. Mola Ram and the Nazis ultimately failed because were evil- the Ark, Grail, and Sankara stones took them out.
I think the aliens killed the psychic Russian chick because she absorbed too much knowledge, but the ending wasn't really clear.
Read into Lucas's original cut of the OT. It was bad. He had 3PO pulling slapstick humor on stormtroopers in the middle of the Battle of Hoth. And remember the scene in ANH where the troopers walk by and the door in Mos Eisley opened and 3PO and R2 snuck out. Remember that tension? That scene was played in reverse. George's version was the droids walking into the closet, shutting the door, and then the troopers marching right by it with a wAcKy sOuNd EfFecT. The OT was basically saved by Lucas's ex-wife, who cut and rearranged the films to take out all of his stupid shit and treat the plot and characters more seriously/realistically. If you go through the changes and play it in your head the way George intended, IT ABSOLUTELY FEELS THE SAME AS THE PREQUELS. Like its startling how the tone feels.
I think he also had a rough cut screening with Spielberg and several other directors that proposed significant changes.
That's why we have those unused scenes with Biggs on tatooine and Jabba that cropped up in the special edition. Luke also had a whole gang of friends that got cut at their suggestion.
I didn’t really hate Crystal Skull (I didn’t think aliens and flying saucers should be a bridge too far if one is cool with avenging angels and such from the other movies) so I’ll consider Indy as the star as a quadrilogy, but the main point stands, everyone gets to decide which movies “count” in their own mind because ultimately entertainment is in the eye of the beholder. You always have the right to reject a new franchise entry as far as you care.
It's not the aliens in Crystal Skull that bother me. Its the zany/cartoonish levels of danger and villains. Yes there was some of this in the previous 3, but it's just too much in 4. The refrigerator to survive a nuke. The overly sentient ants reacting instantly. The Keystone Cops style villains and chases. It just went full corny. If they had dialed things back just a little bit, I wouldn't 'hate' it. The tone. We accept Mola Ram in Temple of Doom ripping out hearts because it fits with the pulpy terror motif. Indy 4 is just ZaNy CrAzY man. If that makes sense.
It also started the 'bad dad' path for Indy. I get that they are trying to mirror his relationship with his own dad (Connery) but it was too heavy handed imo. Too disfunctional. Too finger wagging. I don't know, the movie has a weird ass vibe. Harrison Ford was already way too old in that one. Rickety and awkward. He should have played more of the Connery role to whomever they were going to pass the torch to. Shia was another failing in that sense. Though I don't overly hate the guy or his acting. He just wasn't a good fit for an Indy movie.
This. There's no one thing that sank Crystal Skull. The basic premise and setting were solid, Commies replacing Nazis and aliens replacing religion totally fits with the 1950's.
LeBouf was a poor casting choice, and the action bordered on slapstick at times.
I think it also suffered from not really having a moral element like the first three. Mola Ram and the Nazis ultimately failed because were evil- the Ark, Grail, and Sankara stones took them out.
I think the aliens killed the psychic Russian chick because she absorbed too much knowledge, but the ending wasn't really clear.
Read into Lucas's original cut of the OT. It was bad. He had 3PO pulling slapstick humor on stormtroopers in the middle of the Battle of Hoth. And remember the scene in ANH where the troopers walk by and the door in Mos Eisley opened and 3PO and R2 snuck out. Remember that tension? That scene was played in reverse. George's version was the droids walking into the closet, shutting the door, and then the troopers marching right by it with a wAcKy sOuNd EfFecT. The OT was basically saved by Lucas's ex-wife, who cut and rearranged the films to take out all of his stupid shit and treat the plot and characters more seriously/realistically. If you go through the changes and play it in your head the way George intended, IT ABSOLUTELY FEELS THE SAME AS THE PREQUELS. Like its startling how the tone feels.
I think he also had a rough cut screening with Spielberg and several other directors that proposed significant changes.
That's why we have those unused scenes with Biggs on tatooine and Jabba that cropped up in the special edition. Luke also had a whole gang of friends that got cut at their suggestion.
Member when Shia was swinging through the trees on vines with the monkies? I sure do.