Asking questions is the best defense. Be confident in knowing that they don't understand what they are saying.
Ask them to clarify and define, until they turn hostile. Then just retort with any version of "no I don't believe I will", or "no I don't agree at all".
When they ask why just go back to asking them to define their idea. In public you win battles by showing that they're ignorant.
"What is genderfluid? No I asked what it is, not what it isn't - what is exactly it?"
"Is that a gender or a gender role? What exactly is the difference, you're not being clear."
You can do this with anything they believe. It's all a house of cards and will come crashing down.
"What exactly is the causal link between poverty and say rape? Explain to me the chain of events."
"Why are poor countries not more violent if poverty is the cause of violence?"
The trick is to not allow them to switch a subject, or move on to the next question until they either give an answer, or admit that they don't know. So keep repeating the question. Whenever they don't know, just repeat as if to confirm. "Ok so you don't know." "I see, so another thing you don't know."
If they hit you with "so you think you know" or "what's your explanation then" tell them "no no I agree we don't know, just I didn't expect that anser from you, in my expereicen keeping an open mind is not somethings that liberals are willing to do with controversail subjects, but of course I agree we don't know why blacks commit more rape who knows what the reason can be, I'm just surprised you agree with that".
It helps is you start the debate with: "Ok, I will be happy to have this talk with you, but you know that I have experienced that people on the left soon turn to humilation, sarcasm, mocking, and treating their opponents as children, and sometimes are downright mean. I will trust that you're not one of those though". Then when they inevitably turn hostile, point it out. "hey I thought we agreed that you won't talk down to me like other liberals always do".
If they escalate it's ok, you want the mask to come off, just stay calm. Remember that it is you staying calm that is causing them to take the mask off and to not know how to handle you. As soon as you lash out, they will be at ease and on known territory. They need to feel superior to feel at ease, and regardless of what they say the fact that you are calm is making them feel inferior.
If they whatabout, position yourself outside whatever group they're attacking. You don't have to let them group you. "But right wingers are more hateful" -> "that's not my experience, generally they just seem to have their own preferences, but you would have to have this conversation with them, not me".
And as much as you can, use their own reasoning against them. Run their own purity tests on them whenever the opportunity presents itself.
My experience of trying to deconstruct their logic or to talk sense into them is that it just doesn't go anywhere. They have their rehearsed lines, and anything outside of that they resufe to engage with.
It's why I ended up with this faux socratic method of forcing them to be precise and seeing them squirm when they keep contradicting themselves.
Do you mean masochism?
Asking questions is the best defense. Be confident in knowing that they don't understand what they are saying.
Ask them to clarify and define, until they turn hostile. Then just retort with any version of "no I don't believe I will", or "no I don't agree at all".
When they ask why just go back to asking them to define their idea. In public you win battles by showing that they're ignorant.
"What is genderfluid? No I asked what it is, not what it isn't - what is exactly it?"
"Is that a gender or a gender role? What exactly is the difference, you're not being clear."
You can do this with anything they believe. It's all a house of cards and will come crashing down.
"What exactly is the causal link between poverty and say rape? Explain to me the chain of events."
"Why are poor countries not more violent if poverty is the cause of violence?"
The trick is to not allow them to switch a subject, or move on to the next question until they either give an answer, or admit that they don't know. So keep repeating the question. Whenever they don't know, just repeat as if to confirm. "Ok so you don't know." "I see, so another thing you don't know."
If they hit you with "so you think you know" or "what's your explanation then" tell them "no no I agree we don't know, just I didn't expect that anser from you, in my expereicen keeping an open mind is not somethings that liberals are willing to do with controversail subjects, but of course I agree we don't know why blacks commit more rape who knows what the reason can be, I'm just surprised you agree with that".
It helps is you start the debate with: "Ok, I will be happy to have this talk with you, but you know that I have experienced that people on the left soon turn to humilation, sarcasm, mocking, and treating their opponents as children, and sometimes are downright mean. I will trust that you're not one of those though". Then when they inevitably turn hostile, point it out. "hey I thought we agreed that you won't talk down to me like other liberals always do".
If they escalate it's ok, you want the mask to come off, just stay calm. Remember that it is you staying calm that is causing them to take the mask off and to not know how to handle you. As soon as you lash out, they will be at ease and on known territory. They need to feel superior to feel at ease, and regardless of what they say the fact that you are calm is making them feel inferior.
If they whatabout, position yourself outside whatever group they're attacking. You don't have to let them group you. "But right wingers are more hateful" -> "that's not my experience, generally they just seem to have their own preferences, but you would have to have this conversation with them, not me".
And as much as you can, use their own reasoning against them. Run their own purity tests on them whenever the opportunity presents itself.
It waries for sure.
My experience of trying to deconstruct their logic or to talk sense into them is that it just doesn't go anywhere. They have their rehearsed lines, and anything outside of that they resufe to engage with.
It's why I ended up with this faux socratic method of forcing them to be precise and seeing them squirm when they keep contradicting themselves.