Anyone can turn away from Judaizing, from atheism, from homosexuality, or from adultery. I told you there was only one sin that can't be repented from, and that's on the grounds of logic. If a person rejects the nature of the universe over the course of a mature lifetime, that person gets so confirmed in that rejection that it becomes permanent and unchangeable, and remains negative indefinitely. And that's what the person's free will chose by unanimous consent over many years.
Jesus said that a king will forgive small debts and great debts the same way, but the difference is the one forgiven a great debt is so much more conscious of it that the reaction of gratitude becomes a greater testimony to the king's beneficence. Also there are differences of rewards in heaven, so there are additional things to strive for even though everyone who wants a heavenly relationship with the universe will receive it.
Other answers are the same as before. Thanks for the ping.
If there is life after death, then punishment after death matters. If there isn't any, then what matters most is the expression of punishment in this life, which is also sufficient if death is the end. So whichever choice you make you still have consequences.
I pointed out in this thread that the sin that is "unforgiven" is the hardening against the way the universe works (e.g. to preserve life), and that's on logical grounds. Every moment you get to harden yourself to truth or to be open-minded and pursue truth, and the hardening yourself is its own sufficient punishment. The person who meets truth and pushes back is already being punished in finding that things in this universe don't work and people recognize him as a bully, loser, or other failure in his pushback. That natural consequence is why most people most of the time have a common grace of wanting to at least appear to be true and doing the right thing, because it works better among humans and also in nature.
So you're right that when one kicks against learning the consequence is that one is illiterate. Over the course of a life we see potential for those consequences reaching a point of no return, and there are some people we consider as unforgivable, gone too far, "sold-out souls". If hell exists it's just the continuation of that, and even if it doesn't the natural way this known universe works is sufficient to explain the phenomenon of unforgiveness (and the deep potential for forgiveness of severe sins as well).
If your point is that in the case of afterlife punishment one can take the risk that it's just a sham, my answer was that there are enough natural consequences to bad behavior in this life that they suffice.
You suggest that some bad actors apparently go unpunished, and one could also infer that if, say, sodomy was so wrong then there would be more negative natural consequences (besides some relatively easily avoided diseases). Yes, all kinds of people make all kinds of innovations, sometimes improving on common morality to everyone's agreement, and sometimes trying new things that the majority disapproves; and we might argue that the disapproved innovations don't get the "smite" treatment lately.
This is not a proof that the universe won't stop immorality or that it's unjust. Because Blue, logically, either there is no universal justice (meaning there's nothing "unjust" about the person you disapprove getting off scot-free in your humble opinion); or there is universal justice (meaning that whatever that justice is really will happen and our own thinking that justice has been deferred or sleeping is the real error). You don't get it both ways by saying injustice exists (meaning people get away with junk) and justice doesn't exist (meaning we have no duty to do right ourselves).
It's not me imposing my will any more than it's you imposing your will on real bad actors (like pedophiles). It's us working together to learn how the universe really does work. If the universe has lots of loopholes where what is called bad really does go unpunished, let's learn the universe's true loopholes so we can best pursue our enlightened self-interest! Could there be some good in sodomy after all?
Anyone can turn away from Judaizing, from atheism, from homosexuality, or from adultery. I told you there was only one sin that can't be repented from, and that's on the grounds of logic. If a person rejects the nature of the universe over the course of a mature lifetime, that person gets so confirmed in that rejection that it becomes permanent and unchangeable, and remains negative indefinitely. And that's what the person's free will chose by unanimous consent over many years.
Jesus said that a king will forgive small debts and great debts the same way, but the difference is the one forgiven a great debt is so much more conscious of it that the reaction of gratitude becomes a greater testimony to the king's beneficence. Also there are differences of rewards in heaven, so there are additional things to strive for even though everyone who wants a heavenly relationship with the universe will receive it.
Other answers are the same as before. Thanks for the ping.
If there is life after death, then punishment after death matters. If there isn't any, then what matters most is the expression of punishment in this life, which is also sufficient if death is the end. So whichever choice you make you still have consequences.
I pointed out in this thread that the sin that is "unforgiven" is the hardening against the way the universe works (e.g. to preserve life), and that's on logical grounds. Every moment you get to harden yourself to truth or to be open-minded and pursue truth, and the hardening yourself is its own sufficient punishment. The person who meets truth and pushes back is already being punished in finding that things in this universe don't work and people recognize him as a bully, loser, or other failure in his pushback. That natural consequence is why most people most of the time have a common grace of wanting to at least appear to be true and doing the right thing, because it works better among humans and also in nature.
So you're right that when one kicks against learning the consequence is that one is illiterate. Over the course of a life we see potential for those consequences reaching a point of no return, and there are some people we consider as unforgivable, gone too far, "sold-out souls". If hell exists it's just the continuation of that, and even if it doesn't the natural way this known universe works is sufficient to explain the phenomenon of unforgiveness (and the deep potential for forgiveness of severe sins as well).
If your point is that in the case of afterlife punishment one can take the risk that it's just a sham, my answer was that there are enough natural consequences to bad behavior in this life that they suffice.
You suggest that some bad actors apparently go unpunished, and one could also infer that if, say, sodomy was so wrong then there would be more negative natural consequences (besides some relatively easily avoided diseases). Yes, all kinds of people make all kinds of innovations, sometimes improving on common morality to everyone's agreement, and sometimes trying new things that the majority disapproves; and we might argue that the disapproved innovations don't get the "smite" treatment lately.
This is not a proof that the universe won't stop immorality or that it's unjust. Because Blue, logically, either there is no universal justice (meaning there's nothing "unjust" about the person you disapprove getting off scot-free in your humble opinion); or there is universal justice (meaning that whatever that justice is really will happen and our own thinking that justice has been deferred or sleeping is the real error). You don't get it both ways by saying injustice exists (meaning people get away with junk) and justice doesn't exist (meaning we have no duty to do right ourselves).
It's not me imposing my will any more than it's you imposing your will on real bad actors (like pedophiles). It's us working together to learn how the universe really does work. If the universe has lots of loopholes where what is called bad really does go unpunished, let's learn the universe's true loopholes so we can best pursue our enlightened self-interest! Could there be some good in sodomy after all?