I literally have no idea what's happening, as the propaganda machines of both sides paint opposite pictures. With war,nobody really know's what's going on unless you have attended war room meetings.
You can easily look at the dozens of open source intel twitter accounts who track everything from both sides and together give a pretty clear idea of what's going on.
Start here and look at retweets to get other accounts. They tend to specialise in different areas like satellite intel, weapons, location, maps, tracking losses, tactical analysis, etc: https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop
There are also Russian analysts like Rybar but obvs its in Russian and usually on telegram, but usually one of the English speaking account will translate if there's something significant from a Russian source.
And please dont say something retarded like "how do we know they're not all also propaganda"
Any time I've seen their takes, they have been utterly retarded.
who track everything from both sides and together give a pretty clear idea of what's going on.
Putting together two dubious takes does not make for a clear idea. You have no idea who is lying more, probably the side who is losing, so "let's make them meet in the middle" isn't going to cut it.
I get the feeling that western governments are puppets for the rootless cosmopolitan globalist elites, and that they are dragging us into war with Russia because it represents one of the last major nationalist holdouts against globohomo. To this end, western media has whipped their base into an anti-Russian frenzy while attacking western nationalists as “traitors”. Our crime? Not wanting world war 3 over a border dispute that was initiated by our own governments in 2014.
Anyways, Putin has held back in the Ukraine because he does not want open unrestricted warfare. The west wants open unrestricted warfare, which is why we’ve seen their proxy army routinely engaging in escalating provocations - using human shields, shelling the nuclear plant, bombing a civilian bridge, etc.
If Putin decides to bomb Ukraine‘s leadership and infrastructure, as a direct response to these provocations, then we’re headed for WW3. It won’t matter that a majority of the citizens of the west want nothing to do with this conflict. We will be manipulated into fighting Russia. To this end, our elections will continue to be fraudulent and our media will continue to lie.
and that they are dragging us into war with Russia because it represents one of the last major nationalist holdouts against globohomo.
One thing that persuaded me that it would be very bad if Russia loses, is one comment someone posted that "Russia and Belarus is one of the only places where the regime does not hold power".
They're pretty terrible despotisms, but at least the regime does not have control there.
If Putin decides to bomb Ukraine‘s leadership and infrastructure, as a direct response to these provocations, then we’re headed for WW3.
Quite unlikely. No one cares about Ukraine infrastructure and leadership enough to do anything that he did not already want to do (like provide more weapons and impose sanctions to weaken an enemy they hated long before today).
To this end, our elections will continue to be fraudulent and our media will continue to lie.
Your elections don't need to be fraudulent when most Republicans, if anything, are even worse warmongers than Democrats. At least, not for this issue.
Wait wait wait. I've been assured by multiple sources that the Ukrainian military being able to destroy or disable bridges in Ukrainian territory is a massive accomplishment. Are you implying that these aren't signs that Ukraine has pushed the battle lines nearly to Moscow by this point?
One can regret the destruction of one's country, leaving countless millions of Russians stranded in hostile countries, without liking the communist system.
One, the propaganda mirrors what Japanese people told US interviewers after WW2. They knew they were losing the war because the Japanese forces kept winning glorious victories... ever closer to their homelands.
Two, Russia throughout its history was never afraid of solving a military problem by just throwing more corpses and more stuff at it.
Three, what's really the game plan in the long run? The western european countries don't have a secured supply of fossil fuels so even if they make it through this winter, the next one will be just 6 more months away. Nowhere near enough time to undo the damage 30 years of green-left policies has inflicted on their countries. This conflict has been going on for near enough a decade now (IIRC the crimea thing started in 2014 or so), another year doesn't seem too unreasonable.
One, the propaganda mirrors what Japanese people told US interviewers after WW2. They knew they were losing the war because the Japanese forces kept winning glorious victories... ever closer to their homelands.
Ah yes, the way French newspaper reported on the 90 Days of Napoleon.
— 9th March, the Anthropophagus has quitted his den
— 10th, the Corsican Ogre has landed at Cape Juan
— 11th, the Tiger has arrived at Gap
— 12th, the Monster slept at Grenoble
— 13th, the Tyrant has passed through Lyons
— 14th, the Usurper is directing his steps towards Dijon, but the brave and loyal Burgundians have risen en masse and surrounded him on all sides
— 18th, Bonaparte is only sixty leagues from the capital; he has been fortunate enough to escape the hands of his pursuers
— 19th, Bonaparte is advancing with rapid steps, but he will never enter Paris
— 20th, Napoleon will, tomorrow, be under our ramparts
— 21st, the Emperor is at Fontainbleau
— 22nd, His Imperial and Royal Majesty, yesterday evening, arrived at the Tuileries, amidst the joyful acclamations of his devoted and faithful subjects.
Well, yes. The problem is that there is no feasible way the West would win this, there are multiple ways Russia can claim victory:
Economic: Hurt Russia initially but with OPEC siding with them, they'll recover fine plus the west just fucked it's own supply of energy
Military: if they go all out, Russia wins, the fact they haven't shows a lot of restraint.
Political: they west has been shown to be more focused on virtue signalling than pragmatic governance which turns everyone else off (Middle East, Asia, Africa, South America etc) so we are starting to see new power blocs emerge out of this conflict
Military: if they go all out, Russia wins, the fact they haven't shows a lot of restraint.
One wonders why that is. I don't believe it's "concern for civilians" as anything but show (i.e., hope that Ukrainians will flock to the Russian side). But I wonder if it could simply be incompetence and military malpractice.
There's some suggestion that the military wasn't up to the high standards we believed initially but then again they also wanted a lot of infrastructure intact than have to rebuild it after so that could've been a factor .
Allegedly, they didn't even bomb military barracks full of soldiers, in the hope that these soldiers would go over to the Russian side. Some also claimed that it was because mass casualties would not be acceptable to public opinion in Russia - the attack itself was a shock to many who regarded Little Russians as a brother people.
Or that could just be simple cover for incompetence, which I consider most likely.
It’s interesting to see what I think is the social media-induced sense of artificially constructed reality be manifest in the thinking of our policy makers.
The recent Ukrainian “victories” that are currently talked about matter-of-factly in western media have “recaptured” essentially empty cattle-country that was strategically unimportant. They came at the cost of scores of Ukrainian lives - entire brigades wiped out - and massive amounts of equipment NATO can’t even replace quickly. being destroyed. The Russians comparatively have lost few lives and haven’t even mobilized their newest equipment yet.
If you lose soldiers that you can’t replace, armed with weapons you can’t replace, at a rate of ten to one for a hollow ‘victory’ you’re not really winning. BUT you can claim you are, you can claim it’s a turning point, and you can hope that you’ll make your enemy stumble and instigate a political victory. And if you’re a moron who fundamentally believes in the importance of appearances, that if your Instagram/LinkedIn profile is perfect then your life is perfect, you can probably fool yourself into thinking that doing retarded shit like bombing civilian infrastructure or throwing half your army into a meat grinder to score a temporary win in the “information war” is wise.
People don't understand that held territory isn't the qualifier for victory. Accomplished strategic goals are. Russia isn't trying to conquer and hold all of Ukraine for 20 years like afghanistan all over again. And they don't care about their own conscripts lives lost, nor are they fielding their best material and units. They're sacrificing shit they want to replace anyway, and the survivors have combat experience, which is valuable.
Irony? Ukraine is not tiny, and it has 800,000 men with military experience (terrorizing the people of the Donbas for 8 years). I always thought 170,000 was pretty pathetic as an invasion force, but I thought Putin knew what he was doing.
There are Western outlets admitting that our leaders are perplexed by Putin’s restraint. This is because they themselves have never hesitated to bomb the shit out of their enemies, including when they were “the good guys” of ww2. They know Russia has the capability to wreck Ukraine in a weekend, but that’s not Putin’s goal.
Even outside Donbas, Ukrainians are basically Russians. The language is similar, the people are genetically very close, it was part of Russia in not ancient history.
Like if US were bombing Canada we wouldn't want to just level whole cities and literally decimate them because we have a lot in common.
This is because they themselves have never hesitated to bomb the shit out of their enemies, including when they were “the good guys” of ww2.
Even as a normal American this is kind of odd to me. In Russia it seems more acceptable to feed their own prisoners and poor conscripts to the meat grinder than to kill random Ukrainians in indiscriminate bombings. You're supposed to kill the enemy not your own people. In fact the US was with fine burning hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese people alive to save the predicted 1 million US soldiers that would be needed to invade Japan. We shock and awed tens of thousands to death in Iraq and Afghanistan because 2000 people were killed by terrorists. Civvie or soldier, our people are worth more than yours.
I guess Russia wants to leave infrastructure intact?
There are Western outlets admitting that our leaders are perplexed by Putin’s restraint.
Yes, the NYT.
This is because they themselves have never hesitated to bomb the shit out of their enemies, including when they were “the good guys” of ww2. They know Russia has the capability to wreck Ukraine in a weekend, but that’s not Putin’s goal.
I have no idea what Russia's capabilities are anymore. But surely more than they are showing now. E.g. where the hell is the Russian airforce?
Holding back in case of a NATO strike. I think Putin is saving his major muscle for that eventually, rather than jump straight to nuke, no matter the rhetoric. Give's him some time to "fuel" le nukes in satellite view I suppose.
You're right. Us ignorant westerners get the sense that Ukraine is this tiny free state holding out against a giant invading Mongol empire. It is obviously smaller than Russia but one of the largest European countries. The propagandists exploit that ignorance for sympathy.
This thread is some hardcore coping and, dare I say, dilating. Putin is losing you braindead bootlickers, and the fact that you have to come up with increasingly desperate fantasies like this to believe otherwise is pathetic. Your minds are utterly worthless.
Russia is winning by sufficiently low standards and losing by sufficiently high standards.
In theory, you can spin a peace deal which is a repeat of Minsk as a victory for Russia, and a Ukrainian rump state in Galicia as a defeat "because Ukraine survived as a state".
I literally have no idea what's happening, as the propaganda machines of both sides paint opposite pictures. With war,nobody really know's what's going on unless you have attended war room meetings.
You can easily look at the dozens of open source intel twitter accounts who track everything from both sides and together give a pretty clear idea of what's going on.
I want that to be true, I really do.
Start here and look at retweets to get other accounts. They tend to specialise in different areas like satellite intel, weapons, location, maps, tracking losses, tactical analysis, etc: https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop
There are also Russian analysts like Rybar but obvs its in Russian and usually on telegram, but usually one of the English speaking account will translate if there's something significant from a Russian source.
And please dont say something retarded like "how do we know they're not all also propaganda"
unironically it's all funded propaganda until proven otherwise. Either direct or indirect.
There's a typo in your name, ApparentlyImARetard
Uncalled for.
Any time I've seen their takes, they have been utterly retarded.
Putting together two dubious takes does not make for a clear idea. You have no idea who is lying more, probably the side who is losing, so "let's make them meet in the middle" isn't going to cut it.
Like who?
Like I'd remember.
That's what I thought.
I get the feeling that western governments are puppets for the rootless cosmopolitan globalist elites, and that they are dragging us into war with Russia because it represents one of the last major nationalist holdouts against globohomo. To this end, western media has whipped their base into an anti-Russian frenzy while attacking western nationalists as “traitors”. Our crime? Not wanting world war 3 over a border dispute that was initiated by our own governments in 2014.
Anyways, Putin has held back in the Ukraine because he does not want open unrestricted warfare. The west wants open unrestricted warfare, which is why we’ve seen their proxy army routinely engaging in escalating provocations - using human shields, shelling the nuclear plant, bombing a civilian bridge, etc.
If Putin decides to bomb Ukraine‘s leadership and infrastructure, as a direct response to these provocations, then we’re headed for WW3. It won’t matter that a majority of the citizens of the west want nothing to do with this conflict. We will be manipulated into fighting Russia. To this end, our elections will continue to be fraudulent and our media will continue to lie.
One thing that persuaded me that it would be very bad if Russia loses, is one comment someone posted that "Russia and Belarus is one of the only places where the regime does not hold power".
They're pretty terrible despotisms, but at least the regime does not have control there.
Quite unlikely. No one cares about Ukraine infrastructure and leadership enough to do anything that he did not already want to do (like provide more weapons and impose sanctions to weaken an enemy they hated long before today).
Your elections don't need to be fraudulent when most Republicans, if anything, are even worse warmongers than Democrats. At least, not for this issue.
Wait wait wait. I've been assured by multiple sources that the Ukrainian military being able to destroy or disable bridges in Ukrainian territory is a massive accomplishment. Are you implying that these aren't signs that Ukraine has pushed the battle lines nearly to Moscow by this point?
Watch Yuri Bezmenov interview. Russia created the globohomo.
globohomo is a spawn of marxism, the soviet union was itself just a creation of the idea that is marxism.
In other words, Russia and Soviet Union made it.
And of course you omit who the Bolsheviks were that created and controlled the USSR for so long.
99% of them were white Russians.
Next you'll tell me that Trotsky wasn't a new york city jew.
Deflecting?
While I wouldn't be surprised, I don't think those tactics are exclusive to russia. The WEF, for example, has been very successful in the west.
WEF is also applying the tactics learned from Russia and China.
They're applying the Frankfurt School.
Same Russia. Putin even wants it back, check his speech on how he regrets the dissolution of the soviet union.
One can regret the destruction of one's country, leaving countless millions of Russians stranded in hostile countries, without liking the communist system.
Didn't they just admit that it is about conquering Transnistria and got owned by an Italian Tv presenter?
That does explain why they rode to Ukraine with tanks praising Stalin and the Soviet flag though, right?
All I saw in Ukraine so far was 3 things:
One, the propaganda mirrors what Japanese people told US interviewers after WW2. They knew they were losing the war because the Japanese forces kept winning glorious victories... ever closer to their homelands.
Two, Russia throughout its history was never afraid of solving a military problem by just throwing more corpses and more stuff at it.
Three, what's really the game plan in the long run? The western european countries don't have a secured supply of fossil fuels so even if they make it through this winter, the next one will be just 6 more months away. Nowhere near enough time to undo the damage 30 years of green-left policies has inflicted on their countries. This conflict has been going on for near enough a decade now (IIRC the crimea thing started in 2014 or so), another year doesn't seem too unreasonable.
Ah yes, the way French newspaper reported on the 90 Days of Napoleon.
— 9th March, the Anthropophagus has quitted his den
— 10th, the Corsican Ogre has landed at Cape Juan
— 11th, the Tiger has arrived at Gap
— 12th, the Monster slept at Grenoble
— 13th, the Tyrant has passed through Lyons
— 14th, the Usurper is directing his steps towards Dijon, but the brave and loyal Burgundians have risen en masse and surrounded him on all sides
— 18th, Bonaparte is only sixty leagues from the capital; he has been fortunate enough to escape the hands of his pursuers
— 19th, Bonaparte is advancing with rapid steps, but he will never enter Paris
— 20th, Napoleon will, tomorrow, be under our ramparts
— 21st, the Emperor is at Fontainbleau
— 22nd, His Imperial and Royal Majesty, yesterday evening, arrived at the Tuileries, amidst the joyful acclamations of his devoted and faithful subjects.
Well, yes. The problem is that there is no feasible way the West would win this, there are multiple ways Russia can claim victory:
Economic: Hurt Russia initially but with OPEC siding with them, they'll recover fine plus the west just fucked it's own supply of energy
Military: if they go all out, Russia wins, the fact they haven't shows a lot of restraint.
Political: they west has been shown to be more focused on virtue signalling than pragmatic governance which turns everyone else off (Middle East, Asia, Africa, South America etc) so we are starting to see new power blocs emerge out of this conflict
One wonders why that is. I don't believe it's "concern for civilians" as anything but show (i.e., hope that Ukrainians will flock to the Russian side). But I wonder if it could simply be incompetence and military malpractice.
There's some suggestion that the military wasn't up to the high standards we believed initially but then again they also wanted a lot of infrastructure intact than have to rebuild it after so that could've been a factor .
Allegedly, they didn't even bomb military barracks full of soldiers, in the hope that these soldiers would go over to the Russian side. Some also claimed that it was because mass casualties would not be acceptable to public opinion in Russia - the attack itself was a shock to many who regarded Little Russians as a brother people.
Or that could just be simple cover for incompetence, which I consider most likely.
All the propaganda from the USA makes me think of their coverage of Vietnam.
It’s interesting to see what I think is the social media-induced sense of artificially constructed reality be manifest in the thinking of our policy makers. The recent Ukrainian “victories” that are currently talked about matter-of-factly in western media have “recaptured” essentially empty cattle-country that was strategically unimportant. They came at the cost of scores of Ukrainian lives - entire brigades wiped out - and massive amounts of equipment NATO can’t even replace quickly. being destroyed. The Russians comparatively have lost few lives and haven’t even mobilized their newest equipment yet. If you lose soldiers that you can’t replace, armed with weapons you can’t replace, at a rate of ten to one for a hollow ‘victory’ you’re not really winning. BUT you can claim you are, you can claim it’s a turning point, and you can hope that you’ll make your enemy stumble and instigate a political victory. And if you’re a moron who fundamentally believes in the importance of appearances, that if your Instagram/LinkedIn profile is perfect then your life is perfect, you can probably fool yourself into thinking that doing retarded shit like bombing civilian infrastructure or throwing half your army into a meat grinder to score a temporary win in the “information war” is wise.
People don't understand that held territory isn't the qualifier for victory. Accomplished strategic goals are. Russia isn't trying to conquer and hold all of Ukraine for 20 years like afghanistan all over again. And they don't care about their own conscripts lives lost, nor are they fielding their best material and units. They're sacrificing shit they want to replace anyway, and the survivors have combat experience, which is valuable.
Do you not?
duh
Probably but I feel like it should have only taken a month or less to conquer tiny ukraine
Irony? Ukraine is not tiny, and it has 800,000 men with military experience (terrorizing the people of the Donbas for 8 years). I always thought 170,000 was pretty pathetic as an invasion force, but I thought Putin knew what he was doing.
There are Western outlets admitting that our leaders are perplexed by Putin’s restraint. This is because they themselves have never hesitated to bomb the shit out of their enemies, including when they were “the good guys” of ww2. They know Russia has the capability to wreck Ukraine in a weekend, but that’s not Putin’s goal.
Even outside Donbas, Ukrainians are basically Russians. The language is similar, the people are genetically very close, it was part of Russia in not ancient history.
Like if US were bombing Canada we wouldn't want to just level whole cities and literally decimate them because we have a lot in common.
Edmonton too? I thought it was alright. Agreed wrt the rest.
Even as a normal American this is kind of odd to me. In Russia it seems more acceptable to feed their own prisoners and poor conscripts to the meat grinder than to kill random Ukrainians in indiscriminate bombings. You're supposed to kill the enemy not your own people. In fact the US was with fine burning hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese people alive to save the predicted 1 million US soldiers that would be needed to invade Japan. We shock and awed tens of thousands to death in Iraq and Afghanistan because 2000 people were killed by terrorists. Civvie or soldier, our people are worth more than yours.
I guess Russia wants to leave infrastructure intact?
Yes, the NYT.
I have no idea what Russia's capabilities are anymore. But surely more than they are showing now. E.g. where the hell is the Russian airforce?
Holding back in case of a NATO strike. I think Putin is saving his major muscle for that eventually, rather than jump straight to nuke, no matter the rhetoric. Give's him some time to "fuel" le nukes in satellite view I suppose.
You're right. Us ignorant westerners get the sense that Ukraine is this tiny free state holding out against a giant invading Mongol empire. It is obviously smaller than Russia but one of the largest European countries. The propagandists exploit that ignorance for sympathy.
One of world’s two superpowers versus a pip-squeak of a country whose installed leader is a former comedian.
lmao, no.
Go watch Russian weekly talk shows. The whole country can see that things are going to shit.
This thread is some hardcore coping and, dare I say, dilating. Putin is losing you braindead bootlickers, and the fact that you have to come up with increasingly desperate fantasies like this to believe otherwise is pathetic. Your minds are utterly worthless.
Depends what you define as 'winning'.
Russia is winning by sufficiently low standards and losing by sufficiently high standards.
In theory, you can spin a peace deal which is a repeat of Minsk as a victory for Russia, and a Ukrainian rump state in Galicia as a defeat "because Ukraine survived as a state".
I really hope so. I just hope the nuclear war is confined to the northern hemisphere
Nuclear fallout will be confined to earth. Got your ticket to Mars ready?
Coriolis Effect