The most "woke" part is a line from Catwoman, and it really makes her seem naive. The themes of the movie honestly seem almost "anti-woke".
For example, a major theme seems to be that we shouldn't be shackled to the wrongdoings of our ancestors, nor should we be punished for them. Another theme is that celebrity/hero worship is a bad thing. Finally, we're presented with the idea that a person can make a terrible mistake and still be a good person, which runs directly against cancel-culture. There even seems to be a message about how strong male figures are important in a child's life, which is just about as far from woke as one can get.
It's a different superhero movie to be sure, but it's not woke. At least not in my eyes. It's a mix of noir detective stuff and more traditional superhero tropes. Think "Seven" meets "The Dark Knight" and you're almost there.
I honestly think people were actively looking for wokeness (and who can blame them?) but that may have made them see woke aspects when, in reality, there really weren't many to be seen.
I hope you understand that the alienating effect of wokism is cumulative. Race-swapping major characters and then having the strong independent black woman become the first non-corrupt kang-n-shieet of Gotham while she makes cracks about how much better she is than all of the old white men may not have been enough to make me pan the whole movie five years ago, but it definitely is now. I have zero tolerance for that shit. None.
I suppose if you go looking for something you'll find it.
I didn't go looking for it. I went to that film genuinely hoping I'd enjoy it. But it seems that even when they're trying to play down their politics, Hollywood can't resist telling the audience how much they hate us.
what extras did Spiderman save in the new movie? an interracial couple of course.
For me, is not that I'm looking for it but it sticks out.
Same as having a small frame woman kicking full grown fit men around. (also a critique of the movie)
Unfortunately I just can't turn it off and it breaks immersion. It makes it hard to enjoy media that would be ok otherwise. This goes for games and movies.
I want to make a point that there is a difference between woke influenced and woke media. The casting choices have been woke influenced without being woke in the context of the movie.
Catwoman doesn't "kick full grown fit men around" though. Batman easily bests her and she knocks out two guys who she catches totally unaware. Not exactly her being unrealistic. She even gets manhandled by an aging, scrawny Mafia-type.
I have not seen it but Critical Drinker did say something along the lines that she needs help from the stunt men during the fight scenes but is to be expected in a modern movie but at least she does not outclass Batman.
I assumed she does beat up some guys in the movie. I tend to believe him, he also likes the movie despite the flaws. He also says there is a mix bag when deciding if it is woke or not.
I mean, I took a piss during one of her scenes so I may have missed something but the only dudes she "beats up" were two goons and she had a weapon while she got the drop on them.
You mean like looking for "it's not woke"?
My stance is pretty clear.
I am done giving any money to Hollywood who has shown time and time again they completely hate anyone who doesn't conform to their woke narrative.
It seems you enjoyed the film, if so good for you.
Other people seem to have different views on the level of woke in this film than you.
This is my stance, as well. I will pay to see movies I believe the makers thereof deserve to have money for (GB: Afterlife as an example), but for anything else, no way in hell. I will sail the high seas for anything else.
And it's fine that other people have differing opinions, I just felt like people claiming that the movie was supremely woke are being a bit misleading. The only real wokeness is a single line from Catwoman. Hell, even the casting isn't that woke honestly, as we already had a black Catwoman several decades ago and Billy Dee Williams played Harvey Dent in Burton's Batman. The actor who played Gordon is at least a GOOD actor, not some nobody who can't act.
I don't think they are being misleading.
Geeks and Gamers saw the same film as you and he said that the film did have identity politics. He said it didn't entirely ruin the movie for him but that it was there.
Different people have different levels of woke they will tolerate at this point.
My stance is that anything that even has a drop of woke is worth not supporting with your money.
It seems you have a different threshold than the other people who disagree with you on the level of woke in the film.
That's what I mean. There weren't any identity politics. No one is really painted as good or bad because of their identity. Catwoman's line is the closest we get to something like that, but it paints her as naive instead. The Riddler isn't bad because he's white, it's because he's got a warped sense of justice. Catwoman isn't good because she's black...hell, she's not really shown to be "good" anyway. She portrayed as a petty, selfish child who only wants revenge and money.
"There weren't any identity politics."
Press X to doubt.
Literally every film reviewer that I still trust has said the film does have identity politics. It may not completely ruin the film but it is clearly there.
The level of idpol in this film was maybe tolerable to you but other people clearly have different opinions.
You are trying to argue your opinion as fact here.
Why do you care if other people point out the clearly visible idpol in this film?
If you liked the film then that should be all that matters to you.
it's not subversion because they already subverted it 20 years ago!
lol
Try 60 years ago
The black female mayor became mayor without being elected, was targeted by riddler despite it explicitly being said he only goes after corrupt Falcone politicians-- in a scene that was forced because after the bombs go off Riddler had already completely won.
The entire mayor race subplot only existed to be woke. CMM. Would have been better if she had just been the mayor from the beginning and Mitchell was just some other politician.
Also this batman sucks at saving people. Great batman character performance, terrible hero as written.
(Btw if the theory of telegraphing plans is to be believed, T will be assassinated and H will just get to be president afterward.)
Also want to add the 'last jedi' moment and the plot going out of its way to tell you Thomas Wayne was actually a racist sexist white supremacist climate change denier probably trump voter
It seemed like they had 3 endings written, couldn't decide which one to use and just used all 3.
Think about what you just said...the mayoral race was rigged. The mayoral race didn't exist to be woke. It existed to show that, even if a candidate WOULD be good for Gotham and bring about needed change, the system was so corrupt that the only way they stood a chance was for the incumbent to be killed. I think the incumbent even asked WHY she was ahead, not HOW, implying they were fixing the numbers or planning on it.
And the Riddler's victory was for character development. It forced Batman to question his methods and realize he was too focused on vengeance rather than justice. It also creates a Gotham more in line with the comics, as we're even told "people will grab up whatever they can" while the camera focuses on the Penguin. There is a theme of "one man can only do so much" that comes into play here too. It's even mentioned by Batman at the beginning of the movie.
Batman "sucks" at saving people because he was focused on vengeance, not justice or anything. That's why the last few minutes focus almost entirely on him saving people and realizing he needed to be doing that more.
...did you miss the whole scene where Thomas Wayne gets his redemption by Alfred? It's clearly stated that he didn't order Falcone to kill anyone, even by Falcone himself ("He told me to put the fear of God in him") and that he was trying to protect his family. He tried to turn Falcone in and come clean even.
Interesting rebuttal but I have a couple comments
What do you think about the points discussed in this thread?
https://kotakuinaction2.win/p/142ArdQGd4/big-shocker-riddler-in-the-new-b/c/
I think it missed the point entirely.
SPOILERS AHEAD... . . . . . . . The "HoldTheLine" username is barely visible. It's also an INCREDIBLY common saying. Fuck, it's a decades old song name for christsake. I think people are reading into it too much. It's one of about 6-8 random ass names in a chatroom. It's not focused on or discussed at all. It's just...there.
I have no idea where the whole incel thing comes from. The Riddler's motivation is that he wants to be Batman 2.0 basically. He feels wronged because he grew up a poor orphan while the elites were rich due to corruption. No mention of anything remotely incel related. It's actually a big turning point for Batman. Makes him realize he can't simply stand for vengeance, he should be about justice. Again...the theme of hero worship being a bad thing.
There is even a female Riddler...cohort? (The Riddler is caught because a woman called him in, this is revealed to have been part of his plan as he says he'll be behind bars before the final stage of his plan, meaning it was a setup).
Comment Reported for: Rule 15 - Slurs
Comment Approved: No, but it is a silly comment.
I have rigger fatigue, I'm just not going to watch anything with blacks as major characters anymore
I don't really care if it's not that woke. It's just another superhero movie made to put teenage asses on the theater seats. Yet another reboot of the the same tired and rehashed superhero. I remember I thought Dark Knight was overrated as my friends were all wetting their panties over it, little did I know it would only get worse.
And this is why I don't like superhero franchises; they just have the same name, but reboot every 5 minutes. It's lame.
Maybe I'll give it a chance but I have 0 tolerance for wokenes.
What I think by reading the comments so far:
If you are about to make a good male hero in a dark realism setting is either going to be anti-woke or unwatchable trash. There is not much room in the middle.
So in the end is a good movie with a bit of woke trash.
The movie could have been great without the woke trash infecting it but we now have a somewhat good movie that came out in a time where movies have been consistently trash. So it looks like a better movie then it is.
I was trying to explain why it seems that it is woke and anti-woke at the same time.
The main story arc for Batman is anti-woke, so the core of the movie is anti-woke but they had to infect it with modern day politics so you get a bit of woke mixed with a good story.
This is my conclusion based on comments and the spoiler free review done by Critical Drinker.
The Drinker said it wasn't as bad as he expected and that's good enough for me.
Yes it was. The entire message was the same as the defund police mentality. Watch it again. Riddler is an eViL wHiTe iNcEl, What? Batman is beating criminals who are conducting a mass killing? You can't do that it's wrong, it's police brutality. Beating the shit out of terrorists trying to combat evil white capitalists? What, Bruce Wayne is another one of those evil white capitalists and you shouldn't feel bad because he lost his parents. He's one of those people. His parents deserve it and he deserved to lose them. As an adult, so what he's still one of them.
There's not one good cop among them. In case you notice, Gordon is the only black male cop and he's the only one defending Batman.
What, the villain agrees with Batman fighting against the evil white capitalists? What's the difference between him and Batman? Why is HE the bad guy but Batman does it and he doesn't get arrested. Oh right he's part of the protected elite beating on the little guy that just means well. Catwhamen the illegitmate half black daughter of a mob boss? Sure let's gun him down oh wait, no you can't kill him that's bad. You see, yet? It's another bullshit modern movie wearing a costume of that character you like. He's not Batman.
Edit: watch Shapiro's review, he explains it better. I know, I know...but he's not wrong. Take the fandom lenses off and watch it objectively. You'll feel dumb afterwards like I did. It was bias because I like the IP. This is not a Batman movie once you realize how much it doesn't work.
I haven’t seen it as of yet but I heard someone say it was good outside an annoying line about white privilege. I know there have been black catwomen before but I don’t get the need to race swap Gordon. I do appreciate the post. I’m sure I’ll see it eventually