My parents have definitely been scared by the “pandemic” and are super excited that they are able to get the vaccine next month.
Predictably, the question becomes, “when are you going to get the vaccine shot?” I’ve told them about my concerns with the vaccine back in November, and they seemed to agree back then, but it appears the COVID panic has grown into paranoia for them since then. I live in another state for a job, so I have told them that “I’m young so they aren’t giving vaccines out to my demographic yet,” though that excuse isn’t going to last. Honestly, we’ve been planning for me to visit them, and now it seems as though they are at the point where they won’t want me to visit unless I am vaccinated like them.
I’m standing my ground on my refusal to take the vaccine, as the risk outweighs the benefits in my opinion, but I think that my refusal will be the turning point of my relationship with my parents. It’s absurd to think that not taking a vaccine for a disease with a 99% survival rate would be what causes my family to not want to see me in person, but their fear of COVID (they are under 70) might be strong enough to where they give me that ultimatum. I hope it doesn’t come to that point, but I’m bracing myself for it. Most likely I will be seen as paranoid and being ridiculous, but I would rather not submit to that pressure.
Make no mistake, I’m not looking for advice, I just wanted to give a little backstory to my question to the the forum. For those of you who are skeptical of the vaccine and plan on refusing to take it, are you already seeing the relationship between your family, extended or otherwise, strained because of this? If the vaccine question hasn’t come up, do you foresee your stance on the vaccine causing your family to think more negatively of you or strain the family relationship?
I’m not a professional or expert (though frankly experts and professionals these days are increasingly useless), but I would advise those skeptical of a vaccine with less than a year of development to stand your ground on this issue as a matter of your own personal health. The pandemic has shined a blacklight on the nature of those in power around the world, and to place absolute trust in these institutions would be unwise. Stay strong in your resolve!
My sister has already told me that I'm not going to be allowed around my niece once she is born unless I'm vaccinated.
I'm an EMT, I have had direct unprotected contact with people who I was later told were covid positive, every single coworker of mine has had a positive test result for the virus.
So only 1 of 2 options has happened.
Either I got it at some point over the year and was asymptomatic or had such mild symptoms that I never noticed it, and thus have the anti-bodies for the virus, which means I have no need to take the vaccine since that is SUPPOSED to be the purpose of a vaccine to have you body create an immune response to something so you are protected against it.
Or I was so healthy throughout the year that I never caught it in the first place which means as long as I keep doing what I'm doing, then there isn't a problem.
But I'm not getting the shot and if someone is trying to use a child as a means to coerce me into doing it, then I guess I'm just not going to see my niece for a few years until my sister comes to her senses.
It sucks but, they gave me an ultimatum and they need to live with the consequences of doing so.
Exactly. If you give me an ultimatum, that's entirely your problem. Don't play along with people's retarded games.
TBH, I don't know if the vaccine or the anti-bodies are going to protect you as different strains evolve and adapt. You may actually want to take a vaccine for your job due to exposure, but at the same time, as the virus becomes more endemic it will also become less lethal (which it already has). Frankly, everyone here probably has more concentrated knowledge of the vaccines and the disease than I do at this point. It's really hard to keep up with.
Similarly, I don't remember if the whole "asymptomatic carriers" thing actually turned out to be bunk.
Asymptomatic spreaders of the disease have at various point been vastly overhyped as a vector.
Temporary, asymptomatic carriers being a thing is more or less the norm for most pathogens. The default for most infectious diseases is you're not considered to actually have a clinical case until some symptoms show up, even if a sensitive enough test can pick up some of the pathogen in your system. Because more often than not a pathogen that enters your body is taken out by your immune system before it ever has the chance to establish itself and do any real damage.
You can theoretically get a disease (as defined by symptomatic infection) from just a single viable virus molecule, but it's super unlikely it will be able to reproduce faster than even your non-specific immune responses will destroy it, it surviving would only happen due to a serious dysfunction in your immune response. But the more copies of a viable virus you are exposed to at once the more likely they are able to out-multiply your basic immune system and you end up with a period of runaway multiplication. With enough of a starting dose even a healthy immune system will fail to keep it in check before that point and the collateral damage will be enough to make you sick. But even if you're inoculated with to a dose too small to result in actually getting sick, after exposure there is a period of some time where some small number of the virus is still active in your body as your non-specific immune responses mop up the stragglers. During that time you can detect it by PCR and may even shed a small amount of viable virus into the environment, but around other healthy people it's very unlikely that small amount alone would be enough to make anyone symptomatically sick themselves.
But if you're noticeably sick then by that point you might have have 100,000s times more of viable pathogens inside you than the peak of someone with a subclinical infection, and you will be shedding roughly proportionately more viable virus into the environment, and it is vastly more likely that you could expose other people around you to large enough number to overwhelm their immune system's first line of defence and make them sick too.
Hence why people with weakened immune systems are particularly susceptible to this virus.
I mean all pathogens really, even the frequently harmless ones, but yes.
After my prediction of the AstraZeneca vaccine being dangerous ended up being true, my family now follows my advice on these things.
Man I would love to be a fly on the wall at your Thanksgiving dinners where you tell Me-Maw she's a stupid bitch responsible for the downfall of society.
We don't do Thanksgiving, my family wasn't born in the US. Also, I'm not quite as high a "power level" with family and friends. I do the women in power line for now. It seems to work.
Christmas was pretty bad last year though. People got me things from companies I was boycotting and it was awkward to explain why that's a problem. Oh, and a girl I cut out of my life over their BLM support got me a Switch with some bullshit note about "friendship over politics". It's sitting next to me now, I'm probably going to regift it to my mom to play sudoku apps or some shit.
About 6 months ago I got into an argument about masks with my dad that became so heated we almost became permanently estranged. We walked it back a bit, but the relationship was strained for awhile after that.
I think now with the benefit of 6 more months of "15 days to 'flatten the curve'" he's become a bit skeptical of this stuff, and things between us have calmed down some. It also helps that it's no longer a fringe position even among the normie right to be skeptical of all this.
As for the vaccine, I told them I see it the same way as I see the flu vaccine: I'm not in a high-risk group, so I can't make the risk/reward equation pencil out to bother to take it.
My family, no, as they're mostly apathetic about it. I'll just lie to them if they do ask.
My job however, is another story, and im dreading the day they demand I do it. Already looking for other work in case they do.
This is my chief concern.
I'm hoping to see what my legal options are since I don't want to disclose health information to my employer.
Someone posted an article about the vaccine in here the other day. I foresee massive lawsuits if employers try to make the vaccine mandatory due to the vague nature of the EEOC's verbiage. But we do live in clown world know so who knows. I won't be getting it, they don't actually know if it prevents a person from contracting the disease and they don't know if it prevents spread. They've all just been shown to lessen symptoms and seeing as how I had it and it was a mild annoyance I don't see the point of injecting a rushed out compound into myself.
I keep thinking to myself "Children of Thalidomide"
Nobody had any idea what would happen until kids were being born deformed.
Same, I anticipate being jobless by EOY. Will find out how those 'life savings' play out.
Already estranged due to lack of real name social media
Now is the time that our moral courage will be tested.
Physical courage is doing what needs to be done despite risks to life and limb. Moral courage is doing what needs to be done despite risks to reputation, employment, social status, contempt from peers, ridicule, and damage to relationships. For most men, physical courage is much easier to come by.
The only way to find out how much conviction we have in our beliefs is when we have to decide how much we are willing to sacrifice for them.
We have to face the fire, know how much it will hurt, and then walk through it, bearing the pain with as much dignity as we can maintain.
Draw the line somewhere, and hold it.
My parents and I agree that we're only getting vaccinated once Sputnik comes around and we can chose it. The main argument being that while all the western world powers can clap their hands and make more "citizens" appear out of the middle east and Africa. Putin does not really have that luxury, so if he's gonna use some vaccine that screws over his population he mostly just screws himself over too. My grandmas already got it because one is just waiting to die but in denial and the other is half dead and really still wants to be bedridden and shitting herself for another 10 years ideally. For relevance, we all live in Germany.
Rather, you should consider avoiding vaxxers like the plague, at least until the possibility of them becoming factories for an actually lethal virus is disproven. Plus, just on general principles of avoiding the stupid.
I don't see any family issues over not being poisoned, but if any of them somehow turned out to be morons, they obviously wouldn't rate any consideration.
Same goes for any family that might sell you out to social media. Although just being in their phone contact list on a compromised device probably has to be tolerated.
Great post. I'm right in the middle of this.
My parents are inquiring multiple times per day about my "efforts" to become vaccinated. They view it as a legitimate cure for the pandemic; they believe we will all be completely safe the moment we are vaccinated, and not one moment sooner. I have no doubt they are gleefully anticipating the arrival of a vaccine passport in our state. Telling them I don't want the vaccine would be tantamount to telling them I voted for Trump. They would immediately excise me from the family circle until such time as I "see the light" and join them in the radical leftist fold. If I were to tell them what I really think about their positions on this subject, they would probably disown me.
It's deeply upsetting to see people I once respected as intelligent and rational thinkers succumbing so completely to media fear mongering. I shouldn't be surprised because these same people cheered on the BLM riots and acted like the capitol riot was another 9/11, but I could at least duck all of that idiocy by dropping out of family chats and going quiet during zoom calls. With vaccination, I have to continually lie to them, and that could blow up in a very big way if vaccine passports go wide (which they probably will here in my uber leftist state).
I'm thinking of relenting and getting the JnJ shot. It seems the least terrible of the three. I'm going to tell my family that I didn't want to do it at all, that I felt pressured by them to get it, and that I will not be happy with permanent vaccine passports, the establishment of mandatory, yearly booster shots, or any long-term negative side effects of the vaccine. I'm going to make it very clear that if any of these things happen, I will blame them for blindly coercing me to compromise my beliefs.
Tldr: if I begrudgingly get the vaccine, I'm at least going to hedge by setting it up as an opportunity to red pill my entire retarded family if/when something goes wrong. And if that isn't enough reason for them to stop being idiots, I'll have plenty of motivation to pull the old "you can't fire me because I quit."
Tell them you cannot in good conscience take the vaccine until every black and brown body has been vaccinated.
Or just tell them the vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting Covid, doesn't prevent you from spreading Covid, only gives you "protection" for roughly 6 months, and that you aren't taking a vaccine that's only approved for emergency use when you have a 99.997% chance of surviving Covid.
If they still badger you about it I would just take a step back from family for a few months (if possible).
You can always get the jab a year from now if you want. Why rush just to please others? It isn't worth it.
You say that like it's a bad thing. SARS is not endemic in humans. You don't need a lifetime of immunity to a disease that will be gone again in a year.
They really don't know what you do online, do they?
You're an idiot.
Grow some balls and just say no.
By any chance, have you seen this yet?
Just tell them you are waiting until the vaccine is out of clinical trials first before taking it. They would not want you to risk your health on an unpredictable and unproven treatment I am sure.
So many people, my family included, have invested so much emotional capital in the vaccine, putting all of their hopes in a return to normalcy once they're vaccinated, that I'm hoping it will be a real wake-up call for them once they have got the vaccine and they're still told they can't go out with all of their friends, they can't travel to see their grandkids or their siblings and they still have to wear the masks everywhere. Maybe it will actually be enough to break the conditioning.
Yes, but it started earlier, during the holidays. I still tell myself to take the high road, and try to deescalate things. However, I can see that’s how we got in this mess. ‘Go along to get along’ doesn’t lead to good things. Maybe it’s time for them to face some consequences for their dishonesty, for once.
Of course it won’t accomplish anything. They’ll just sob to other family members that ‘oh muh gerd, I can’t believe he was radicalized by the far right!’
I think I'll be ok with close family. They all know I'm brutally stubborn and totally independent, so there's really nothing they can hang on me as a threat. Essentially it hurts them more than it hurts me. I'm not even totally against the vaccine, but more resisting the measures put in place around it. This stuff they are doing in NY with their passports is perhaps the worst affront to liberty in my lifetime, and I just can't go along with that.
Censored Dr. Martin Kulldorff, who was linked from here a few days ago, pretty much said what I think on the vaccine: "Trust in #vaccines is declining, but don't blame the tiny group of anti-vaxxers. It is those pushing #VaccinePassports, arguing that all must be vaccinated, and those censoring vaccine discussions that are undermining trust in vaccines." Actually I read a ton of his tweets and it's all things I've been saying all along. All I've ever wanted was some rationality.
So, back to the topic at hand. I think I'll be ok with family, but I'm unsure with friends, and I fully expect activities I enjoyed in 2019 to remain restricted to me, with very little I can do about it.
Yes, but I think my family is not prepared to take the vaccine yet.
This isn't the first time that Scientism went completely awry and hurt lots of innocent people. This and the puberty blockers fad will likely go the way of Eugenics, Lobotomies, Cure-alls, and Thalidomide.
The good news is, after a few years, they'll probably have a working vaccine with known effects. I'm just going to wait until they sort all that shit out for themselves.
Eugenics was a good idea and I'll fight you to the death over that.
It's more mutable than the common flu.
How will they have a single stable vaccine for it when they currently cannot even create a vaccine that specifically targets the viral infection itself?
Eugenics was never a good idea because a) it didn't actually reflect biological or genetic realities, it depended on abstract measures of some genetic traits, though the abstraction was generally defined by environmental factors. And b) the last humans on Earth that should be trusted with the right to decide who has the right to breed is a committee of Progressive Scientismists/Technocrats.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that they will create a vaccine / series of vaccines that are fairly reliable and have relatively few side effects given enough time. I'm just not convinced that we're at that point yet.
What you're talking about is negative eugenics, and subjective biology.
There are in fact objectively inferior traits. There are in fact objectively inferior behaviors. There are in fact objectively inferior genetic markers.
The issue in the past was that groups took advantage of the idea of eugenics to justify a system of control.
Instead, positive eugenics is the acknowledgment of evolution as a system of generational advancement. Action and influence must be taken to guide individuals and families towards a superior outcome.
We KNOW that certain behaviors are bad. We KNOW that certain behaviors are good. We also know that certain bloodlines have more potential, and some have less.
The goal is to give people the tools they need to best create a future for themselves and their posterity.
I'm saying you're a fool for believing this when they cannot currently do it with the common flu.
There is no evidence to suggest that the chinese flu will be any different from the normal african flu.
No, there aren't, ask a geneticist. You simply asserting that something is inferior does not make it so. Something that may or may not be useful can't be known to be evolutionarily useful until the animal encounters an environment where that utility may present itself. The utility is purely dependent on the conditions of the environment, which are many and varying.
That is what eugenics is: a system of population control and technocratic breeding regimens by self-appointed visionaries... typically progressives who are just oh so much smarter than everyone because they are the absolute pinnacle of their evolutionary line. That's why their were progressive intellectuals.
"good" or "bad" depending on what? Evolution and genetics make no such decisions. And those decisions should never be left up to self-anointed visionaries who think they know what's best for society despite constantly being proven that they don't know shit.
They already have that. It's called a brain. Don't stick your dick in crazy, and don't spread your legs for worthless men.
No, I don't think you understand what I'm saying, and in fairness that might be my fault. They already do do what I'm saying with the flu vaccine. The flu vaccine is yearly, fairly reliable, and fairly safe.
Amen to that.
If my parents were trying to force me to take a vaccine that I didn't want to take, I would just stop associating with them. I would never do something like that to anyone, let alone my own family. And that is grounds for not speaking to them anymore unless they changed their position. They can have their own beliefs, but if they try to force or coerce me to inject myself with things, they are doing something morally abhorrent, and I would have zero tolerance for that.
I told them I want more kids and not putting that at risk over a science experiment.
No, my body my choice.
This is just one hill I'm ready to die on.
"Vaccines are safe and effective. Therefore those who get vaxxed are not at risk from those who do not."
I've been asked 5 times if I'm going to get the vaccine. I've made it clear that if they still want their son in their life, they had better not ask a 6th time.
First and foremost you must make yourself the center of your decisions. This may sound selfish (if you are a man, women do this naturally), but that is only because you have been heavily indoctrinated and groomed to think this way: to consider others first and not yourself. Only you can respect and look after yourself. No one else will respect you if you do not respect and care for yourself, first.
It already has.
My family is based, no worries there
My Parents are based af and I love em for it. But they would still love me if I was a gay lib faggot.
If they love you, they won't care if you got the shot or not cause they will respect your choice as an adult. If not, you don't need toxicity in your life.
Everyone in my family who 'needs' it qualifies for a vaccine, they can take it all they want but I won't be touching it. Not until I actually NEED it too.
I agree with some points about according anti vaxxers, but in this situation it's different. We have vaccines which we don't know the long term effects of and I actually aim to stay relatively healthy for the rest of my life.
If I catch covid I'd most likely be asymptomatic, the only people around me who need the vaccine will get it. It's selfish, but it isn't on me to take a potentially harmful vaccine to protect someone who should've already had it...
Not even slightly.
None of them have any idea how any of it works and as soon as I begin to explain the differences between these current "vaccines" and traditional vaccines.
It goes one of two ways. Either they stop the conversation instantly and move on, or they ask me more and are SHOCKED, AGHAST at the fact that most of the covid vaccines are not vaccines.
Now that big names are talking about vaccine passports and requiring a booster every 90 days those family and friends I've talked with are starting to put two and two together.
Most of my family is in board with the virus not being a big deal, and either agree not to get the vaccine, or don't want to rock the boat with us naysayers.
I'm already mentally-prepared for my relationship with my family completely falling apart. Not because of the virus, but because of which side of the political lines we all fall under, and I doubt they'll be a fraction as respectful or tolerant of my beliefs as I have to be of theirs. It's only a matter of time before they catch on to what I really think, or they're going to say or do something that will cross the line that's going to make me not want to know them anymore. My uncle and grandmother are really the only people I trust at this point. Unfortunately, they live all the way in fucking California, and the latter is pretty much in her last days, so they can't really be of any help anyway.
The vaccine is just another issue on that pile. I guess I'll see what happens when they all jump on the bandwagon first and experience the effects of it firsthand so I don't have to. And if any of them die, well...in a couple of those cases, it means I get a big inheritance.
Shiit, I'm the tame one in my family.
Thankfully my parents, who are in their mid sixties, are based and red pilled. Both have dealt with their fair share of authoritarian assholes throughout their lives and they're not having any of this current brand of horseshit.
Hell, my mother stopped taking the seasonal flu vax decades ago because just kept giving her the full blown flu.
If you're younger and haven't had kids or want to have more kids, just say you're not taking it for that reason. There's no long term studies on the effects on reproduction or offspring, wouldn't want to hurt their grandkids would they? I'm assuming you're a guy so you may have a harder time with that excuse than a woman would but just stand your ground, that's what I'm saying because it's true. I've read a bunch of copied posts on .win from reddit about women getting horrible periods out of nowhere or having periods late following the vaccine, likely due to vaginal hemorrhaging. God knows what that could do long term.
If my family and friends can’t accept me not wanting to blindly inject wildly untested drugs into my system I wouldn’t be around them anyway.
I'm not anticipating any issues. Some of mine got it already. They asked me if I planned on getting it. I said maybe after a year on account of the rushed trials. They seemed satisfied with that answer.